palingates: Open thread - Taking a break

Saturday 24 October 2009

Open thread - Taking a break

I'll be taking a break from the blog for a few weeks, starting next week. We're going to Australia! The blog will be in Patrick's capable hands, so there won't be any problems with continuity. I don't think I'll find the time to blog, but I most certainly will read Patrick's insightful, well researched and beautifully written posts.

*****

Someone left this comment on the last thread:

Anonymous said...

Unless you have definite, unequivocal proof, you are only being a "birther". Yes, I do believe that Obama was born in the USA, and at least Sarah has been vetted more than tnan any politician right now. I believe that she gave birth to Trig, if not only because she had the "pregnant face". Regina, you must remember that face, when it is so swollen that you look at yourself in the mirror and wonder if it will ever become normal again. Since you have shown us pictures of your child, I think that you must remember that time, My MIL gave birth to my husband and no one knew she was pregnant and he weighed over nine pounds when he was born. My Mom was pregand with me and her doctor was leaving the country for vacation and I was "taken out" early because she was confortable with her obstetrician and even though my birth was "high risk" she wanted her doctor. I was supposed to be a child of "Pro-Choice" and my mom chose LIFE. I guess that it worked out for her because or all of her children, I am the one that takes care of her.

24 October 2009 06:22

Well, Anon, as it happens, I didn't have a pregnant face. I hardly had a pregnant body, but had a definite bump. In my first pregnancy I only started showing at around 5 months and showed much earlier in my second. I expect I would have shown even more if I had more pregnancies, who knows? I'm 5' 2" and very slim.

I don't know what your your mother-in-law looks like, but I have met some plump ladies who didn't look pregnant at all, just fatter. If one of these women didn't tell anybody that she was pregnant, it would be quite possible to surprise her acquaintances with a nine pound baby...

(Click to enlarge)

Many women manage to disguise their pregnancies and get away with it because nobody was paying attention, there are no photos to jog people's memories and it becomes irrelevant in the excitement of a new baby. That's not Sarah Palin's case. The very few photos that survived the scrubbing tell us a very different story. If you read all the posts and discussions about Babygate carefully, you will see that we base our suspicions regarding Sarah Palin's fake pregnancy on a lot more than just a couple of photographs. There are too many inconsistencies and her own account of events surrounding the pregnancy and delivery of Trig sound absolutely ludicrous.

Can all this circumstancial evidence be considered unequivocal proof that Sarah Palin faked her 5th pregnancy? Not yet, but we know we're on the right track.

As for taking the baby out early because the regular doctor was going abroad on vacation, that was your mother's choice, but I find it bizarre and I certainly wouldn't have done that. I'm glad you're a caring daughter, good for you.

*****

I posted a couple of links about Down Syndrome on that same thread, here they are again:

Sarah Palin and Down's Syndrome

Sarah Palin, baby, fluids, risks and the doctor

*****

I'll be busy preparing for our trip next week, but will be following the discussions when I can and might even find the inspiration to write a couple of posts...

A tout a l'heure.

209 comments:

1 – 200 of 209 Newer› Newest»

Aussie Blue Sky said...: 'Pregnant face' must be accompanied by other physical distortions - 'pregnant belly, pregnant ankles, pregnant back', to name a few.

ps: I would never have my baby "taken" early in order to fit in with some doctor's golf schedule - and I would hardly call it "choosing life!"

Bon voyage, Regina.; 24 October 2009 at 12:32
Kat said...: Have a wonderful time Regina!!; 24 October 2009 at 12:57
Anonymous said...: Don't forget to have some shrimp on the barbie.

Regina... the last time you went away all hell broke out.. Sarah quit.

Maybe this time she will leave for the comet or hopefully get arrested.; 24 October 2009 at 12:58
Anonymous said...: Regina, the poster you replied to was right. You are not better than the birthers on our side. You hold onto a belief with despite the evidence to the contrary.

What are your qualifications to judge those photos you oft mention?
Where are the doctor's that can properly analyze those pictures?Where are the experts that can conclusively determine that CBJ's letter was forged?

I'll keep on waiting for Patrick and Griffin to break their big story and finally bring down Sarah Palin. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time, though.; 24 October 2009 at 13:16
Sansego said...: Have fun in Australia!!! That has been #1 on my dream travel destinations for over twenty-seven years now. I dream about that country. I'd be curious to hear what Aussies think of Obama and Palin.; 24 October 2009 at 13:51
Anonymous said...: Have a good time, Regina.; 24 October 2009 at 14:45
Anonymous said...: Let's hope that with Sarah's endorsement of the 3rd party candidate in NY, she leads the lemmings off a cliff. It was a dumb thing to do, if she has any hopes of getting the republican nomination or of winning if she's nominated. She's dividing her own peeps. Nevertheless, let's not let-up on the investigation of her many gates. It wouldn't surprise me to see her indicted for something, and I look forward to seeing her in jailhouse orange wearing nice, shiny wrist and ankle bracelets.; 24 October 2009 at 15:18
wayofpeace said...: a great side-by-side graphic, REGINA.

only the truly KOOL-AID intoxicated will not pause and consider to have been conned by the queen of CON!

bon voyage!; 24 October 2009 at 15:22
Anonymous said...: Levi's TV Appearance, Monday; 24 October 2009 at 15:31
Anonymous said...: I have to point out to the poster who said sarah Palin was the "most vetted" candidate in the history or whatever that Sarah Palin was actually the least vetted candidate.

Your belief that Sarah Palin was vetted has been proven demonstrably false. This is not a matter of opinion. It's a fact. Every media outlet agrees that McCain didn't vet her at all, and they hardly had any time to do so. Because of this, Sarah got away with a lot of lies about her past record.

She came from nowhere.

She never provided her medical records. Her tax records showed the same frauds that Dachle's did. Her husband may not be eligible for security clearance at the top level (he didn't get it, and in fact, nor did she -- she was the only candidate not included in security briefs).

I could go on for a long time, but I know that the poster is a part of Sarah's cult, and therefore can't and won't deal with facts.

It's sad to see you people throwing your hard earned money at a monster who's using you, and who doesn't represent you in the least and doesn't care about you at all.

I hope for your sake that you know where to draw the line and won't give Sarah Palin your last penny.

She wouldn't give you hers.

Did you know that when she was mayor a recall was initiated against her for abusing her power?

Sounds like Troopergate redoux, eh?

Psstt.....when the same issues come up with different people over a long span of time, and there's proof being deliberately obfuscated by Palin and her cronies, what does that tell you?

It says that your Goddess cult leader is a figment of your imagination. A hoax. A lie. A thief. A Jim Jones. A snake oil salesmen.

I'm sure that makes you lonely and scared- after all, she makes it OK for you to be a resentful, angry person who doesn't try to understand others or show compassion for anyone else.

It's not OK. It's not OK with God, your fellow man, your family, any religion, and certainly not your country.

Wake up before it's too late. You're ruining this country and your own life.; 24 October 2009 at 15:31
Anonymous said...: The Duke study which showed that males who voted for the GOP ticket lost testosterone answered a lot of questions about current Palin supporters--and why they are devoted to her.; 24 October 2009 at 16:09
ProChoiceGrandma said...: This is addressed to the “pregnant face” Anon who posted on 10-24-09 at 06:22:
I usually refrain from ridiculing, but the anon who believed Sarah gave birth to Trig because she had a “pregnant face” is impossible to ignore! I have seen a lot of lame excuses made by palinbots, but I think this one just rose to the top of the list, except for the ones with the simple-minded defense: “because Sarah said so”.
“I believe that she gave birth to Trig, if not only because she had the "pregnant face".” Do you believe Sarah carried Trig in the waddle under her chin, or perhaps her cheeks and jowls? Show us YOUR unequivocal proof of this medical abnormality. In spite of Sarah’s efforts to scrub all photos of her from her website and elsewhere, we now have several pictures that show that Trig definitely did not come from Sarah’s womb, and lots of comparison pictures comparing Sarah’s non-pregnant appearance with women who were pregnant at the various stages during Sarah’s six-week “pregnancy”.
Remember, Sarah was 43/44 and most likely still having her menstrual cycle and perhaps suffering from a water retention bloating day. Whatever picture you saw that proves to you that Sarah had a “pregnant face”, please share your “proof”. And what do you mean by “if not only because”??
“I was supposed to be a child of "Pro-Choice" and my mom chose LIFE.” Anon, sorry to say this, but I think your mother caused irreparable damage to your mental capacities by forcing your early “high risk” birth for her convenience. Your mother’s “choice” was selfish convenience, not “LIFE”, because she risked your death or physical or mental well-being for her convenience if your fetal development had not yet reached a stage where your lungs, eyesight, etc. were not fully developed.
As to your mother-in-law, I would venture to guess her normal non-pregnant weight was 250 lbs or more, and I do not mean to be disrespectful to overweight women, but I cannot tell when they are pregnant unless they tell me, because their “stage of pregnancy” is “not apparent by observation”. In other words, are they pregnant or just gained more weight? It would be impolite to ask unless they volunteer that information.; 24 October 2009 at 16:18
midnightcajun said...: Sarah's supporters obviously need to take a look at photos of Sarah before she lost all that weight durning the McCain campaign. Yes, she is now extremely thin, but before that she was frequently chubby faced. Look at her college photos (a time when most women are their thinnest), look at the photos during the first months of her governorship. She had a fat face and a not particularly slim body.

As for her vetting, even the chairman of McCain's campaign has admitted that there were 5-6 bombs in her past (including the AIP, the pregnant 17 yr old, and troopergate) that they weren't told about when they picked her. If she had been properly vetted, she would never have been selected.

Regina, enjoy Oz! I lived there for many years and miss it terribly.; 24 October 2009 at 16:41
Anonymous said...: People need to realize that not all pregnant women have the same visible symptoms. I know I was lucky to have no difference in my face, ankles, feet, hands, etc. I did not waddle. I had a basketball type stomach and that was it. My friend had terrible swelling and my sister-in-law's face looked so different when she was pregnant. Everyone is different. I had 4 pregnancies and the one thing I will tell you that is probably the case for almost all women with several children - you do show earlier with each pregnancy. So that's a little issue with Sarah.; 24 October 2009 at 16:43
Anonymous said...: The pregnant face poster leaves me laughing out loud.

Is she brain damaged?

A pregnant face?

I have a chiseled classic face, am as old as the hills, but one day my face is one way, and another day another day a bit fuller if I am retaining fluid.

The only woman I know who chose an early removal of her child for her conventiance because she wanted to go on vacation herself, ended with a brain damaged child. And she sued her obstetritian for giving in to her demands.; 24 October 2009 at 16:46
Anonymous said...: This leaves another very interesting question. Was Trig removed early for the birth mother conveniance?; 24 October 2009 at 16:48
Frank LI NY said...: I had a neighbor who was a bit overweight.(being nice) Anyway, she kept complaining about stomach distress. What that means,I don't know. So she finally goes to the Doctors to find out she is six months prego. She was in her mid to late forties at the time, and had no red flags due to inconsistent cycle. Her second husband who was in his early sixties, with no kids of his own was quite shocked,to say the least.; 24 October 2009 at 16:50
Anonymous said...: Enjoy your trip, Regina!; 24 October 2009 at 17:05
Anonymous said...: If there wasn't a cover-up/hoax, why are the supporters of TeamPalin so worried? If there was no hoax/shenanigans, they should relax. No worries, right?; 24 October 2009 at 17:08
Anonymous said...: This is an amazing site. It must be these palingates that McCain's people were referring to when they called her a "little shop of horrors," in Vanity Fair's article, It Came From Wasilla. Thanks for all you're doing.

wv: fringht .. fringe fright; 24 October 2009 at 17:27
Patrick said...: If anybody would like to publish a guestpost while Regina is away, please don't hesitate to send me your suggestions or texts! I know we have some talented writers here amongst our readers! ;-); 24 October 2009 at 17:29
Frank LI NY said...: Patrick,
I could build you a house or fix your car, BUT please don't ask me to write.; 24 October 2009 at 17:45
Patrick said...: @Frank

Good to see that we have genuine hands-on readers! ;-); 24 October 2009 at 17:48
Elena said...: ProChoiceGrandma - time to step out of comments and into the post spotlight! cmon...we know there's something interesting on your mind. : D; 24 October 2009 at 17:49
Amy1 said...: Regina -- you are going to the land of one of my favorie books, A Town Like Alice. Bon voyage!; 24 October 2009 at 17:54
ProChoiceGrandma said...: Regina, have a lovely vacation and a safe trip! It sounds like you will not be back before Oprah’s show. As anon @ 12:58 pointed out: “the last time you went away all hell broke out.. Sarah quit”. If anything of significance comes out of it, I know we will hear from you!

Watch out for all those poisonous creatures there – no, not the Palinbots, (well those too I guess) – the funnel web spiders and such!; 24 October 2009 at 18:00
Anonymous said...: If having a puffy face is a sign of pregnancy, then my 75 year old sister-in-law is in for one big surprise. She is overweight, has thick swollen ankles, a round belly and the most puffy face that you have even seen. She must be the new octa-mom by that definition!

Plenty of women have been pregant, and the only thing about their face that gives them away is a "glow," all those nice hormones at work.

We do not have any proof that Sarah was pregnant- no real medical report, no witnesses to a live birth, a suspect picture taken in a deserted hallway (where's that pregnant face in that photo????); 24 October 2009 at 18:15
Anonymous said...: @Patrick, may I suggest some topics for guest posts in Regina's absence? Here are some questions I have:

1) SWEET TWEET NO MORE? Whither the promised politically incorrect Palin tweets post-governor's office? A complete look back at Palin's Twitter history, next to a timeline of the Shatner performances.

2) COMEDY AND SARAH PALIN. Did Conan O'Brien, a comedian, effectively end Palin's Twitter usage by providing a comedy spot for them? Will SNL's 2008 parodies of Palin be refreshed anew with Tina Fey (as SP) and Maya Rudolph (as Oprah) in November skits to coincide with Oprah's interview and the release of GOING ROGUE and GOING ROUGE? Palin's feud with Letterman also come to mind.

3) THIRD PARTY REFLECTIONS & PREDICTIONS. A complete look at Palin's AIP involvement in the context of third party affiliation. Is SUFON an attempt to start a new 3rd party (and not the Seattle UFO Network)? I realize Regina has already done some excellent AIP posts (http://palingates.blogspot.com/search/label/AIP). But can anyone further contextualize her AIP involvement in terms of predicting her FUTURE 3rd party activity? What does Palin like about the AIP, for example? A Palin 3rd party would have these same elements included, possibly.

4) FACEBOOK AS SINGLE PLATFORM. A look at how and why other celebrities & politicians use Facebook versus how Palin uses it. Do other celebrities have ghostwriters on Facebook? if so, which ones and for what reasons? Does Gingrich have a ghostwriter on his Facebook page? He is not in office at the moment, so presumably he has time to write his own. But does he? How do Romney and Huckabee use Facebook? What do new media marketing strategists have to say about the most effective use of Facebook as a SINGLE PLATFORM (which is all Palin has now)? Is it possible to be a viable "candidate" with only a PAC and Facebook? What do strategists say? Other candidates not in office have foundations, TV shows, etc.

5) DUKE STUDY, LOSS OF TESTOSTERONE, ANGER? A psychological examination of loss of testosterone and aging correlated to male anger. Why did Duke do this study in the first place? What were they hoping to find out about "how we vote" related to hormones? Is there a connection in their findings to male "teabaggers," the "Teabagging Party" and Fox news viewing demographics? Is there a correlative applicable to any current Palin supporters? If so, why? If not, why not?; 24 October 2009 at 18:15
Patrick said...: Comment I just left on the previous thread:

@sg:

I sent an email to mediaite, addressed to Glynnis MacNicol, and I hope that she has received it. She has not responded yet.

Thanks for your info about mediaite. You might be right, "corporatist" might be the correct description, but in any case, it's not a liberal website from what I have seen.

It still remains to see when the first journalist in the MSM starts to touch the pregnancy issue in a serious way. I have read two books by Jack Anderson recently, "Confessions of a Muckraker" and "Peace, War and Politics", and he would have eaten Sarah Palin for breakfast. Sadly, he is not amongst us any more.; 24 October 2009 at 18:23
Anonymous said...: If anyone asks:

ProchoiceGrandma on wild ride and

3) THIRD PARTY REFLECTIONS & PREDICTIONS.

have my vote; 24 October 2009 at 18:25
Anonymous said...: Hope you have a wonderful time, Regina! Give 'em a hug!

Regarding that "pregnant face" look, I gained weight and thickness during menopause due to the hormones going crazy. I was prescribed birth control pills in order to control the symptoms. Oh, but if you're looking for a "pregnant face," SP's oldest daughter had two episodes, with additional weight all over.

When I saw that wild ride tape, I knew SP lied. I have two kids, my water broke both times three+ weeks before the due dates. Labor pains came some six hours later, with both. Seven years apart, one 7.9#, second 7.7#, both 19-1/2". I stand 5'3".

I cannot imagine after a rupture walking in heels to an elevator, going down to a convention room, standing around in those heels, giving a speech, all that sitting and standing. Then, walking back to the elevator, going back to the hotel room, changing and then back to the elevator, going down and out to the taxi. Getting into a taxi, arriving at an airport, all that walking finally sitting in an airplane seat, and then putting on a seat belt for a long flight. Oh, then getting out of the plane at the airport, walking to another plane, putting on another seat belt for another long ride. Getting out of the plane, walking to a car, getting in and driving another 50 miles. Stopping to pick up kids and another ride to the hospital.

Give me a break...I remember after the initial rupture sitting on towels...and a sneeze causing another gush, one step another trickle. A small amount of fluid sure can make an icky mess. And once enough fluid leaked out, the abdomen seemed somewhat soft and mushy.

Seat belts tight across the abdomen after a previous rupture with a doctor's approval?

Never happened!; 24 October 2009 at 18:41
Anonymous said...: Another topic for a guest post might be her church's beliefs and their implications. There are videos, links to Max Blumenthal and to Leah's blog (on the blogroll).; 24 October 2009 at 18:49
Anonymous said...: "I am an OB doc. If she thought her membranes were ruptured, she should have sought a medical evaluation in person prior to boarding a prolonged flight. As a fifth-time mother, she could easily have gone into labor while on the plane. She also could have had a fetus in distress from umbilical cord prolapse or from very low amniotic fluid volume - neither of which would give her symptoms. An infection could have started after rupture of membranes or even caused the rupture of membranes, though those are less likely. [...] If she indeed talked to her doc, hopefully the doc would have said she should be locally evaluated prior to attempting travel back to Alaska, especially with a fetus with a known genetic change that could require special care immediately after birth. It would be interesting to know what motivated her to attempt travel under those circumstances. It would also be interesting to know the details of any conversation she had with her physician, if one indeed took place. At any rate, the choice to travel even with suspected rupture of membranes for that long of a flight is folly. Fortunately for mom and baby it did not turn into disaster. I sincerely hope others don't take this decision and apply it to their own circumstances."

From the comments of this editorial.; 24 October 2009 at 19:01
Anonymous said...: Interesting that Kristan Cole has recently stopped tweeting!; 24 October 2009 at 19:03
conscious at last said...: Re: Barb Dwyer @10/24,8:43 previous post&thread -

I looked at JC's site also. One of my key observations was that he began it at the end of July 2009. This is exactly when SP quit her job as gov. He states at the outset that his is a pro-Palin blog. What this tells me is that he is an operative who is there to continue Palin's role in the political arena now that she has given up her offical post. The date is significant, just as the date that SP announced her pregnancy is significant-- she announced it the day after McCain got the GOP nod in March '08. There folks actually leave a very obvious trail. Also, watch how JC tries to "cross-examine" us here. He thinks he can bully or intimidate us "lawyer style" because I think he really is a lawyer. He is an OPERATIVE, not a TEABAGGER. He is actually contemptuous of the folks he is attempting to manipulate. He knows the truth about SP and all her "gates." He is just trying to see if he can get some info here and/or confuse newbies. So, folks, please don't bother trying to convince him of anything -- he actually knows the beast up close!; 24 October 2009 at 19:15
Anonymous said...: Found another interesting video about SP's religion. Gets wild at the end! I missed this one back before the election!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naXqE4dTxPA&feature=related; 24 October 2009 at 19:23
pentecostal video said...: 19:23 VIDEO

Sarah Palin: Pentecostal; 24 October 2009 at 19:31
Anonymous said...: Thank you 19:01!; 24 October 2009 at 19:32
Anonymous said...: conscious at last @19:15

Thanks for that info. I think you're right about him being an operative.; 24 October 2009 at 19:41
Anonymous said...: Sarah's pentecostal church is unusual from the angle of its support for dominionism, and its association with Rev. Muthee, who is interested in driving out witches. There is a video with Rev. Muthee laying hands on Palin.; 24 October 2009 at 19:43
Anonymous said...: Here's my question: Why do comedians have so much sway over Sarah Palin's actions? Is it her ego? Conan got her to stop tweeting. Tina Fey and William Shatner read Palin's words verbatim and hilarity ensues! Palin called for a comedic boycott against Letterman and 15 people showed up.

All Romney and Huckabee have to do is hire a comedian in 2010 and Palin will be finished.; 24 October 2009 at 19:44
Anonymous said...: anon@19:43, their "speaking in tongues" could also be considered strange, considering there has been a study that concluded that what is being uttered by the people was nonsense, like word-salad on steroids.; 24 October 2009 at 19:49
Anonymous said...: Yeah, I must say that her response to the comedians doesn't support her view that she's tough, with a thick skin. Look at how she's lashed out at the press and bloggers, too. If she's ever elected Pres., she'd probably quit because she couldn't take it. And if she's concerned about her family she ought to stop drawing attention to them - just a few days ago she drew attention to Bristol's birthday on facebook.; 24 October 2009 at 19:55
Barb Dwyer said...: Conscious at last:

I'm leery about going down the "operative" road, that kind of paranoia sounds somewhat like people afraid of the black helicopters. SP's organizational skills as dismal at best and the people she surrounds herself with (always has) are as dumb as the day is long. I think it's a stretch to say she is directing a group to try and manipulate us. Although with her, I suppose nothing is out of the realm of possibilities.

Googling his name reveals that he leaves posts all over the place defending her. It doesn't appear he follows any of those up though. He comments and then moves on. The only places he seems to be fascinated by are Palingates, Gryphen and Shanny.

If you read his posts about her twitter account and the one about her "resigning" he seems to be rather disappointed. Solemn, melancholy whatever you want to call it. He's clearly not happy. He states he's going to leave the feed of her dead account up as some kind of shrine I guess. Of course he calls her tweets "concise and clear", so he's obviously reading something the rest of us aren't. Maybe he knows of a super special, top secret twitter account she has for her 1 or 2 intellectual type fans.

He has a difficult time keeping his head up in his post about her resignation as well. I suspect he's looking for anything now (past her looks) to keep him on her bandwagon.

What really chaps my hide, is someone who DOESN'T live in Alaska bloviating over the fact she was let off on using yahoo email to do state business on, because the legislature never closed that loophole. It was WRONG plain and simple. Thanks to the email hacker we KNOW she was looking for ways to conduct business OFF the state email system which is deceitful and just plain crooked. Just because you CAN do something because of an oversight in no way shape or form makes it right!

In the ultimate irony he blasts Governor Sanford and tells him to resign because he is "unethical". I wonder what he's gonna think of his girlfriend when she's in prison orange. Will he continue to sing her praises or jump ship like everyone else is doing in droves. I'm sure we'll find out soon; 24 October 2009 at 20:03
Patrick said...: Good suggestions! I am definitely in favour writing more about Sarah Palin's religion and the Wasilla Assembly of God.

Regarding this topic, nobody should miss this excellent clip by Max Blumenthal, who filmed secretly in the Wasilla Assembly of God - so that's the kind of stuff what Sarah Palin experienced there when she was a member of this church for many years...see for yourself.

Max Blumenthal films secretly in the Wasilla Assembly of God; 24 October 2009 at 20:03
Anonymous said...: Patrick, there are also "mission from god" statements on video.

On HuffPo, there is a link to a video where she rambles on for a long time, then tells them that she didn't prepare any remarks because she wasn't sure she'd be there -- real insight into her planning and organizational ability, there.; 24 October 2009 at 20:15
Kyra said...: Just a thought. If everything is on the up and up re Trigg's birth. Why have all the photos been "scrubbed" anyway? Just sayin.

I mean, a common thread throughout all the blogs and comments is how hard it is to find photos from what was the period of GINO's "pregnancy" or of Bristol during that period. It's also understood that there were photos that are no longer there, so if there is no there, there, why?

Just sort of makes the case that much stronger.; 24 October 2009 at 20:18
Anonymous said...: Shouldn't there be an investigation for obstruction of justice with these scrubbed photos?; 24 October 2009 at 20:27
Anonymous said...: Barb Dwyer,
It is common for right wingers to direct groups to manipulate. There are numerous examples, it is not only SP they do that for. They are very organized in that way. To bother much about one group or person in particular is another matter. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are it is a duck, however.

The more clever manipulators look like a friend and are more agreeable. They plant seeds of doubt. Not necessary to change the blog followers.
If you were part of a group that supports SP version of the pregnancy and you learned more of your group and others were starting to check out another blog that made sense to the contrary, what would you do?

A new person might spend how long checking things out? You might just want to keep it simple and just put in some doubt. When a new person looks at the huge amount of material it can be overwhelming. They might just want to go for a quick answer. That person would not go back to their group or friends and say I spent some time looking this over and I doubt SP was pregnant now. They could say I read all the blogs and they are nuts, it's simple she was pregnant.

Other trolls might go full on trying to debate or what have you.; 24 October 2009 at 20:31
Anonymous said...: Another topic is that some emails were released, but some were not released, citing something like "executive privelege;" however, some of the emails that were not released were CC'd to Todd, who was neither an employee of the state nor an office holder. If I remember correctly, that info is on Andrew Halcro's blog.; 24 October 2009 at 20:33
Anonymous said...: Has anyone asked Quitter Queen why she quit the oil/gas commission because someone else was corrupt? Does that make sense?; 24 October 2009 at 20:36
Anonymous said...: I believe it is two years after she steps down that complaints can be filed.

If the media was functioning the scrubbed photos would be in a news story and dealt with. As it is now, it seems the corrupt Alaskan government obstructs anything from going anywhere. The scrubbed photos are not mentioned in the general public. It is like that didn't happen. It goes into McCain territory. McCain and Palin wikipedia were changed at the end of Aug 2008. The photos started disappearing, when?

I would think someone could file investigation for obstruction of justice with these scrubbed photos? Who? When? Where? The people who have been working on the emails could use support and help with that.

Is the Dept of Justice investigating her now?; 24 October 2009 at 20:44
Anonymous said...: Has anyone asked Quitter Queen recently why she quit the elected position of being Governor? I'll betcha Oprah will!; 24 October 2009 at 20:44
Amy1 said...: Just to encourage y'all to look at the link Patrick@20:03 offers. Well done and extremely scary.; 24 October 2009 at 20:54
Anonymous said...: I went to the doughoffmanforcongress site. They're not bragging about Sarah's endorsement. All she's got is a link to her facebook "essay" way down toward the end of the page.

wv=lioutch liar out of touch; 24 October 2009 at 21:05
Anonymous said...: Three topics that are probably impossible to address (but that I think are actually joined at the hip to babygate) are:

--Incest (CBJ, T1's parentage, the heavy partying and substance abuse that would enable it)
--Role of Track (his whereabouts at key times, the vandalism, the partying)
--The fires (at the church, what records might have been lost in it, the fire that killed nurse Dar)

All three of these topics have been hushed up in all our discussions all along, and perhaps it will never be possible to find adequate evidence to discuss them in any sane way, but they remain puzzling loose ends that seem too obvious to ignore entirely.; 24 October 2009 at 21:06
Anonymous said...: Could be that there is a Dept. of Justice investigation. I would follow the money on things like 1) unusually high per capita earmarks to Wasilla while she was mayor; 2) the sale of state or city property; 3) the cost of materials and labor for the sports complex vs what was spent; 4) the house, considering that they may not have had enough income to do the house at the time it was built; 5) the oil-dollars computer glitch ... the list could go on and on.; 24 October 2009 at 21:14
Anonymous said...: The Johnston family said their computers were scrubbed. Were documents and images stolen? Was there a criminal investigation? I wish they would tell what they went through with all that. Did the local news report on the theft? If not, why not?

That is not a serious crime? The FBI didn't do forensics?; 24 October 2009 at 21:24
Anonymous said...: When I was pregnant, I got the fat face, swollen ankles, fat toes, no neck thing... the whole nine yards

But.. that all didn't happen until I went on bedrest for the last month. AND it didnt happen until my stomach had already gotten HUGE

Every prego woman I have seen with the fat face look.. already has a huge stomach

First comes the stomach.... then the fat face

Sarah's fat face and wobbly belly looks like too many crunch wrap supremes and a break in running; 24 October 2009 at 21:28
Anonymous said...: Anon 21:06 - I think those are all important issues that we have very little information on. All too curious imo.

Anon 21:24 - I believe the Johnstons let the McCain campaign ops into their home and access to their computers. I can't remember the name of the McCain staffer who opened the door at the Johnstons' house on their behalf.; 24 October 2009 at 21:33
Anonymous said...: @Bree: Anna Arodzero; 24 October 2009 at 21:38
Anonymous said...: I vaguely recall the Anna Arodzero incident.

Access to a computer is one thing. I don't know where but I think it was Sherry Johnston that brought the missing pc items up in a TV interview. I didn't get the impression she gave someone access to remove things. It was like she felt violated.; 24 October 2009 at 21:44
KaJo said...: Patrick, regarding the Glynnis MacNicol article and all the comments following, I also sent out a heads-up -- to Oprah's staff at "Ask Oprah".

I left the name of the article, the date it appeared and that it appeared on HuffPo, and mentioned the URL of the article as it appeared at HuffPo.

I hope they use the information in the comments section to come here and to the other Palingate sites.

---------------

Also, Patrick, before writing more about Sarah Palin's religion and the Wasilla Assembly of God, go over to Leah Burton's "Theopalinism" site and her new site "God's Own Party" before you go to too much effort. Leah Burton has reams of information on the topics.

----------------

Re: the comments about JC and right wing manipulators like him, and "the other McCain" and Lindell and Mansour and Josh Painter and Adam Brickley, et al -- add the guy who calls himself Dan Archangel or "Dangerous" over on Audrey's site.

It's foolish to think that just because DA wrote a "novel" mirroring some of the revelations about Palin, that he's a "Trig Troother". I think he spent a lot more time trying to obfuscate the reasoning and logic behind our thoughts and investigations, which is exactly what I'd expect a right wing "operative" to do.

And I don't really think Sarah Palin has anything to do with directing these people. I think she's going down her own path, and these people have their own agenda. "Protecting" her reputation is only one facet of that.

----------------

And Anonymous # 21:06, I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I truly believe knowledge about these things are what's been hinted at by one of our blog hosts and by Levi Johnston's lawyer. I believe it's no wonder Levi has a bodyguard, and some of our blog hosts that we never hear from any more SHOULD have had bodyguards.

(my WV is "kinkf" -- yeah, kinky...); 24 October 2009 at 21:45
KaJo said...: P.S., Regina....

Have fun visiting Australia -- I'm really jealous.

I became quite fond of Australian boulder opals when shopping on eBay last year, and have a collection of as many different kinds as I can afford. They feature a lot of ironstone, the matrix the opals are found in, but even a very little opal in matrix can be quite eyecatching.

If you're into semiprecious gemstones, browse for Australian opals. You might get hooked.; 24 October 2009 at 21:50
Anonymous said...: These are all of interest:
--Incest (CBJ, T1's parentage, the heavy partying and substance abuse that would enable it)
--Role of Track (his whereabouts at key times, the vandalism, the partying)
--The fires (at the church, what records might have been lost in it, the fire that killed nurse Dar)

I saw a program with an adoption story, a weekly show, fiction. The TV police investigating made an interesting point that the adoption rings are not tied into the human trafficking crimes. That frustrated their TV case. The law distinguished pregnant young girls that are used in adoptions from say the sex slaves, domestic worker trafficking. This had to do with pregnant homes when girls are helped by going to a home I believe. The adoption homes look benign. I only caught parts of this and it was fiction but interesting.

The part of Sarah's saga that involves Dr. Cathy's work with adoption and Palin's interest in and possible adoption is a subject that deserves more scruntiny.; 24 October 2009 at 22:05
Anonymous said...: Patrick, I am still lobbying for some "Sarah versus the Satirists: 2008-2009" guest post about Palin's campaign against comedy. Please consider it when you want to inject some levity or variety! Even just a timeline of Palin versus comedians over the past 14 months would be interesting. (I don't want to write it but I would love to read it!); 24 October 2009 at 22:11
Anonymous said...: While we are considering the "manipulators," it must be remembered that SP is very likely being manipulated. There are some very smart people who know how to use narcistic personalities to their own advantage.; 24 October 2009 at 22:15
Anonymous said...: In the October Vanity Fair, Sarah says, "Levi, you're coming down here, even if I have to pick you up." I wonder whether she would have had State Troopers pick him up. There is a section, Section 242 of Title 18, USC, concerning a person's deprivation of rights under color of law. Violation carries a fine or imprisonment for up to one year, or both; and if force is used or attempted, the penalty becomes much more severe. Could that threat from Sarah, a state official, be enough to prosecute her?

Levi had been out hunting when he learned from talking to Bristol about coming back as soon as possible. Bristol couldn't convince him, so she gave the phone to Sarah.; 24 October 2009 at 22:22
Anonymous said...: Leah Burton also has good articles about astroturfing and other techinques that are used to manipulate masses and individuals.

Leah Burton
theopalinism
God's Own Party?

@ 22:15
yes, VERY LIKELY
There is a good reason why she is disappeared and only "speaks" with a front person.; 24 October 2009 at 22:23
Amy1 said...: anon22:15 -- agree, and those very same behind-the-scenes manipulators are also working to conceal all.; 24 October 2009 at 22:24
Barb Dwyer said...: anon 20:36

Sarahs appointment to the Oil and Gas commission was a farce to begin with. I'll give you some background about how this came to be, since she likes to tout this as her being (and I use the term VERY loosely) an expert of energy.

Back when Murkowski was running Governor he had SP running around doing some speeches here and there for him. In the if you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, way of politics up here, SP decided Murkowski owed her some favors. She originally tried to cash that in when the Senate seat opened up, which he eventually gave to his daughter Lisa. He interviewed Sarah for that position and is on record as being "shocked at her lack of knowledge" of pretty much everything. Even the corrupt Murkowski knew putting her in the Senate would be a HUGE mistake. So he sent her on her way.

The barracuda didn't like that too well and kept pestering him. So when the 1 civilian position came up for the Oil and Gas commission came up, he decided that might be a good place for her, surely she couldn't cause much harm there. The civilian seat has no power, it was just created to make them look more legit. She did however have to be approved for the seat by the legislature, so she had to meet with them.

They too were appalled at her lack of even basic knowledge and actually tried to talk her out of taking the seat. She promised them that even though she knew absolutely NOTHING about oil and gas and everything involved with it, she would surround herself with people who did. Very reluctanctly the legislature approved her but I guess they forgot to tell her she had to be at work by 8am.

According to most accounts Sarah was looking for a way out of that job from day one. She knew she was in WAY over her head and didn't have even an inkling of knowledge as to what they would talk about in their meetings. That's when she hatched her plan to quit and blame it on Randy Reudrich saying at the time, laughably "I'm forced to withhold information from Alaskans, and that goes against what I believe in as a public servant."

Essentially she accused him of running his campaign from his office, which is EXACTLY what she did in Wasilla. She even used her city email address for her campaign. Apparently all of these ethics issues going on around her and being forced to actually do some work, were just too much for Miss pure as the driven snow to take. So of course she just decided to quit. You can read all about it at adn here.

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/background/story/513761.html; 24 October 2009 at 22:24
Anonymous said...: Thanks Barb -- anon@20:36; 24 October 2009 at 22:40
Anonymous said...: @ 22:22

There was an article with Levi where he told about hunting and the black helicopters taking him. This was not a paranoid fantasy. He ended up at an RNC convention.

I think that was in GQ; 24 October 2009 at 22:46
Patrick said...: +++PART 1+++

Anon 21:06

In my opinion, we cannot seriously cover the "incest" issue at the moment as well as the "Track" issue, because there simply is no material available to us right now. We don't want to suppress this discussion here, but I have to stress that we never ever found any kind of evidence for the incest theories so far. So we won't cover this topic at this point in a blogpost. Same with Track. There is not much we can say apart from which is already widely know, I am afraid. This can change, of course.

However, "the fires" are more interesting in general. We recently received some more information. I have heard from sources in Alaska, but I cannot say that this is 100% confirmed information, that the investigators so far found no evidence for arson in Dar Miller's case, and discovered that the door of her room was locked from the inside. That's what somebody from Alaska who has certain access to information has told me. But it's impossible for me right now to get a "final confirmation" for this fact.

However, the CHURCH FIRE is the really interesting issue - for several reasons. There definitely exists the rumour that adoption records were destroyed in the church fire. But I have no real confirmation for this - the rumour, however, is definitely "out there".

There are several suspicious circumstances regarding the church fire (Wasilla Bible Church).

Why did Sarah make a press statement immediately? Why should the fire have been connected with her campaign anyway? I think nobody apart from Sarah herself could possibly see a connection there.

Palin sorry if the fire was connected to the undeserved negative attention

There is another interesting fact, which is not widely known yet. It concerns Bill Collier, a very "colourful" (and pretty scary) person who is the "Community Governanca Organiser" at Team Sarah, and he was a Moderator, too (don't know if he still "officially" is a moderator).

Very smart people who I was once in contact with had created this website about Bill Collier already several months ago:

What you always wanted to know about Bill Collier

If you want to have the pleasure of hearing Bill Collier complaining about the troll invasion at Team Sarah, then

CLICK HERE TO HEAR BILL COLLIER RANTING

It's worth listening to! ;-)

But regarding the church fire:

Until a short while ago Bill Collier had his own right-wing extremist website, "www.freedomist.org". Apparently the display of his extremist ideas didn't go very well together with his activism for Sarah Palin, because he deleted the website recently - we don't want the world to do know that we are extremist right-wingers, do we...?

But when the church fire happened, his website was still up and running. It featured a public chat - at this time you didn't had to register at his website to see the chat (he introduced a registration procedure later, and then Bill Collier deleted his website completely a short while afterwards).

In a moment of unbelievable stupidity (but fortunate for us...), Bill Collier had a confidential conversation on this PUBLIC chat with "Kelly S" - who is another bigshot over at Team Sarah. Right when this conversation happened, some sneaky liberals "tuned in" and took screenshots of the conversation while it happened.

The full content of this conversation (the part that was "intercepted") can be read here:

The unbelievable moment of stupidity of Bill Collier and Kelly S

(PART 2 FOLLOWS); 24 October 2009 at 22:46
Patrick said...: +++PART 2+++

At the time when this conversation happened, Bill Collier had just published an article about the Wasilla church fire on his website. He was saying that the church fire was a "liberal conspiracy" and an "attack from the left".

In the chat conversation, Bill Collier and Kelly S talk about the church fire - and what do they say? Are they outraged about the evil leftists?

Well - not exactly. They said:

+++
BC: how do you lihe the front page article?
KS: Liberal Conspiracy... nice
BC: :)
KS: or freedaom fire
BC: ralph's headline
KS: Good Headline
+++

(with "Ralph" they mean Ralph Benko, who is the founder of Team Sarah and also an extremely "colourful" person)

So - when Kelly S said "Liberal Conspiracy...nice", Bill Collier answered with a "smiley". Kelly S then calls the fire "freedom fire".

Gives you a lot to think about, doesn't it?

The screenshots of the "unbelievable moment of stupidity" can be found here:

Screenshots: The unbelievable moment of stupidity of Bill Collier and Kelly S from Team Sarah

I will probably write a blogpost about all this at a later point.; 24 October 2009 at 22:47
Patrick said...: There is much more to say about Bill Collier, of course. You will find lots of info in the links I mentioned above.

And remember - Bill Collier says himself:

"We ARE the dark side"; 24 October 2009 at 22:53
Patrick said...: @Barb Dwyer

Very interesting information, thanks a lot!! Good to have you here!; 24 October 2009 at 22:55
Anonymous said...: Yeah, even if Levi doesn't want to pursue the civil rights violation, he should talk to his attorney. It could be used as a bargaining chip to get more reasonable treatment from the Palins.; 24 October 2009 at 23:07
Anonymous said...: Patrick, I have wondered if the church fire wasn't meant to be a "reichstag fire" moment, considering they believe the church is above government.; 24 October 2009 at 23:19
Anonymous said...: I hadn't realized the sleuthing you were doing on these other issues like the church fire, Patrick and others. That's impressive. Thanks for all the time you are putting in.

If any of you need a laugh, I was reading the comments earlier and one of them had something about the candidate that Sarah is supporting in upstate NY -- anyway, I read his name as "Dough Offman," which is pretty apropos! Maybe his opponents should refer to him this way ;-); 24 October 2009 at 23:24
Patrick said...: Yes, "Reichstag Fire" is what it reminded some people of immediately...

We don't know the truth yet. But my gut feeling is that it weren't the "leftists" who started the Wasilla Church Fire...

There was a specific reason why this fire was started, this act of arson was committed. If I only could find more information about all this...; 24 October 2009 at 23:27
Patrick said...: Anon 23:24

Thanks! "Sleuthing" has become my favourite hobby by now...thank you, Sarah Palin! Halleluja!; 24 October 2009 at 23:28
Anonymous said...: Fascinating stuff, Patrick. That church fire always seemed way too coincidental. And did the investigation into it just die? Lots of questions there . . .; 24 October 2009 at 23:35
Anonymous said...: re: the ADN article about $P quitting the oil&gas commission, from the end of the article:

"Palin said she doesn't blame the governor for what happened. But she has suggestions for the future of the oil and gas commission: "No more political appointments," she said."

-----

WOW, just wow !!!; 24 October 2009 at 23:39
Anonymous said...: Yes, there are just as many inconsistencies and WTFs in her explanation for quitting the oil/gas job as there are for her explanation of quitting the governorship.; 24 October 2009 at 23:42
Anonymous said...: You know, her 'bots make a lot of the "fact" that she rooted out corruption in her own party. Aside from the question of whether she did that, there is the issue of whether she's actually a Republican. There is a video: An AIP guy talks to the Constitutional Party. I don't remember whether it was that video or another, but they mention how one of their members goes "mainstream" by joining the Republican party. I think $P was mentioned there. There is also the video of her address to the AIP from the Governor's office. She went to a lot of trouble, too, to get McCain's people to lie about Todd's membership in the AIP; she seemed afraid of something there.

wv=turetd (turreted); 24 October 2009 at 23:55
Anonymous said...: The investigation of the Wasilla Bible Church fire was immediately handed over to the Wasilla Police Department. Why was it not handed over to the State Fire Marshall? Coverup by the Wasilla Police Dept? S.H.; 24 October 2009 at 23:56
wayofpeace said...: thanks BARB!

i did not know the details as to how SP got that position. she is truly a MAGGOT feeding on corruption and lies all the way (almost) to the top!; 25 October 2009 at 00:00
Anonymous said...: She didn't have to quit the Mayor job, because they got a City Manager to do the hard work. Sarah was left with the ceremonial duties: winking, smiling, waving and chatting with the voters.; 25 October 2009 at 00:14
Patrick said...: Anon 00:14

And we all know what a TOUGH job the mayor of Wasilla has to do in the first place!!

Daily Show: The mayor of Wasilla has the hardest job in the world!; 25 October 2009 at 00:17
Barb Dwyer said...: anon 23:55

Make no mistake about it. SP is a full blown member of the AIP. This had to be hidden in order to pursue her political career further. But her true beliefs are their beliefs. Todd was second in command of the party for many years before he too had to cover it up due to her political aspirations.

She had very close ties (which is whole different story) to former Governor Wally Hickel, before he completely washed his hands of her. He was elected actually running ON the AIP ticket.

anon: oo:14

She did quit her job as Mayor during the second term to avoid being recalled; 25 October 2009 at 00:25
Anonymous said...: Barb, that just goes to show how big the Palin myth is. Thanks for correcting my statement. anon@oo:14; 25 October 2009 at 00:36
Anonymous said...: Meet Sarah Palin’s radical right-wing pals
Say it ain't so Sarah!
Max Blumenthal and David Neiwert
AIP todd sarah palin
Sarah Palin
Alaska Independence Party; 25 October 2009 at 00:38
Anonymous said...: Patrick, with all of the research that you have done on Sarah, how about writing to the Oprah people and offering yourself as an expert on the subject to appear on the show. I don't know if Oprah does this during a "celebrity" interview, but if,say the discussion was to be about Down Syndrome, then a therapist, the parents of a DS baby, others in the field might be place in the front row. On cue, Oprah asks them to share a story or offer some information. (They always agree with her; they are not confrontational). Oprah's shows are tightly scripted and controlled. She may even tape in advance.

Still, as an authority on some of Sarah's background, you might just the right guy to be sitting in that front row. I think that the presence of a few of Sarah's favorite bloggers would unnerve her and throw her off-script. I would like to think so.

You might pitch Oprah with some questions that hold general interest to a large viewing public, for example, what kind of therapy has Trig been receiving and how is the little guy doing? What active role do Todd and Sarah (and the rest of the family) play in his therapy? That kind of thing.

Or,since you have researching her church, your pitch could be a non-descript general inquiry into Sarah's faith and what role it plays in her personal and public life. Once you get on, hey, that would be another story and we would all be cheering for you!; 25 October 2009 at 00:50
Anonymous said...: Sarah Palin's Ultra-Con Connections

For those who haven't read the Salon story, our findings about Sarah Palin's relationship to the Patriot right in Wasilla, and Alaska generally, boiled down to this:

* Palin formed a political alliance with Wasilla's Patriot-movement faction while still a Wasilla city councilman, and they played a significant role in her successful campaign against the three-term incumbent mayor in 1996.
* Palin, in one of her first acts as mayor, attempted to fill the seat vacated by her ascension to the mayorship with one of the leaders of this faction -- a bellicose man described by the city councilman who blocked his appointment as having a "violent" disposition.
* Mayor Palin also fired the city's museum director at the behest of this faction.
* Palin also organized this faction to turn out at a city council meeting to shout down a proposed local gun-control ordinance. Palin also determinedly allowed the testimony of the pro-gun crowd before the bill had even been presented to the council or prepared for public hearings -- a clear violation of city-council policy.
* Palin had a continual association with Alaskan Independence Party chairman Mark Chryson (a Wasilla resident) throughout her tenure as mayor, and joined to support him in a series of anti-gun-control and anti-tax measures, both locally and statewide.
* Palin attended the AIP's state conventions in 1994 and 2006, the latter when she was campaigning for the governorship. The 1994 appearance is more questionable, since it came at time when the AIP was more openly radical (its members had backed militia figure Col. James "Bo" Gritz in the 1992 election), and its platform then contained what Chryson calls "racist language".
* She sent a videotaped address to the AIP at its 2008 convention (see above), ostensibly because "I've always thought competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well" -- though notably, she sent no such similar videotaped welcome to the state's Democratic Party.

Summary of Palin's Connections to Ultra-Con Mobs; 25 October 2009 at 00:55
Anonymous said...: @00:50 - I notice you have been writing to all of the anonymous bloggers who have spoken out against Palin and asking the same question: for them to appear on TV when Palin is on.

I believe the Oprah Show is capable of finding their own Palin experts, without our help, don't you? They can read blogs just like the rest of us.; 25 October 2009 at 00:56
Patrick said...: Anon 00:50

Thanks a lot, but that sounds more like a nightmare, sitting in the front row at "Oprah's"! ;-)

I don't think that I am qualified for such a job. But I will do everything which is possible in the background in order to bring the right information forward. It's an uphill struggle, though ;-)

I am not an expert on her religion or her church, although I certainly haven't closed my eyes in this respect and once even made a video about this subject with the catchy title

Sarah Palin: Witchcraft and War

There are other bloggers like Leah Burton who specialise on Sarah's religious views and connections. My main focus was always babygate.; 25 October 2009 at 00:59
Anonymous said...: Well, what Rainey might find interesting is the video at left. It is footage of Dexter Clark, the AIP's vice-chairman, leading discussion of political tactics at the 2007 North American Secessionist Convention. In it, he discussed Sarah Palin thus:

She was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town -- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -- she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won't go into that. She also had about an 80% approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership.

Now, it's true that Clark later disavowed this as "mistaken" after examining the AIP's actual rolls in 2008. But it's clear that Clark and many others within the AIP viewed Palin as "one of ours." And as we have demonstrated, they did so with good cause. -- from Crooks And Liars

---

She had problems with Republican Party ethics? What does "ethics" mean to Sarah Palin? It seems to be a recurring problem for her.; 25 October 2009 at 01:07
Anonymous said...: Speaking of the devil, Leah has a new post about the Constitution Party, here.; 25 October 2009 at 01:26
Amy1 said...: Patrick -- I agree, not enough info to discuss incest or Track. But the following points remain as odd red flags to me:

1. Why have a family MD with CBJ's specialty PLUS no ob/gyn or perinatal specialist at all? Why use CBJ's name for the MD letter and the bogus phone call stories? And why has CBJ said nothing? All this COULD be meaningless, of course. Or, if it's not meaningless, one characteristic of incest in a family is denial, so we might never know.

2. All the semi-facts at the beginning of the T1 pregnancy (wild drug use, amnio, fake timing, visit to NYC, SP's talk of considering abortion [which would have been for Bristol, as SP was not pregnant]) point to some odd and unacceptable beginning, so bad that a hoax seemed (to SP) better than the truth. This COULD be meaningless, too, of course, and just a result of SP's odd mind.

3. The ruling of arson or not arson must surely be at the discretion of the malleable local officials in place. Nurse Dar's former career as an NICU nurse at MatSu, and the extreme likelihood that she would have been in on the professional gossip (forget HIPAA, this kind of gossip stays within the profession and never hits HIPAA territory) is another huge red flag for me. Dar's principled life (per her obit) made me think she might have been about to talk. If her life partner were to say it was a sad accident and nothing more, I would believe it, but her partner has said nothing. That speaks volumes to me, but again, I could be wrong.

4. The church fire, with many more oddities, again could be waving a lot of red flags (records, insurance, arson), or it could all be a sad coincidence.

THIS IS WHY I started calling babygate a litmus test: there are so many -gates, most of them very slippery in their mix of lies and incommunicado participants. I thought that "Was SP pregnant?" would serve as a litmus test, relatively easy to prove conclusively, plus no grey areas, esp when compared to the other issues.

So now WE know she was not pregnant with T1, and no one cares. No one will pay attention. Sigh. Pardon me for restating the obvious yet again. Well, maybe Nov 17 will bring new info to the fore.; 25 October 2009 at 01:49
Anonymous said...: Patrick, I think that Rev. Muthee's speech, in your video, goes beyond what's allowed for a tax-exempt church, if it wants to maintain its tax-exempt status. I don't think they're allowed to advocate for a candidate.; 25 October 2009 at 01:51
Patrick said...: Anon 01:51

Yes, I certainly agree, and even that were just excerpts from Muthee's speech, not even the whole speech (while Sarah was present!). I will try to find the link for the whole speech.; 25 October 2009 at 02:08
Anonymous said...: ALASKA, horrid statistics, from DAILYKOS:

Alaska has 6 times the national average of reported child sexual assault.

1 in 4 girls before the age of 12 and 1 in 6 boys before the age of 18 nationally will be sexually assaulted.

Fairbanks Health Center surveyed 419 clients over a 3-week period and found that 24% reported physical abuse in the past 6 months while 39% reported some form of sexual abuse (1995).

In 3 out of 4 reported cases, the victim knew the offender, the most commonly reported type of sexual abuse is a father who commits incest with his daughter--usually the eldest daughter.

As many as 4 out of 5 offenders were sexually assaulted as children.
One-third of incest victims' mothers were sexually abused as children.

Alaska's rape rate is 2.2 times the national average overall.

Since 1976, Alaska has ranked in the top five states in the nation for the highest rate of reported rape per capita.

In 1993, Alaska ranked 1st in the nation: highest per capita incidence of rape.; 25 October 2009 at 02:11
Patrick said...: I have found it:

Complete speech of Pastor Muthee while Sarah Palin was present; 25 October 2009 at 02:14
Anonymous said...: You have seen this before but it belongs with the other Sarah fringe.
............................................
Exclusive interview reveals: Palin’s church fire was attempted murder by a professional
January 28, 2009, 7:17 am

“Coach” Collins claims to have sobering facts about the Wasilla Bible Church (WBC)
His info came from WBC Elder Tom Ryan.

There were 5 adult women and a 17 year old girl in the church during the arson.

The phone wires and those controlling both the fire alarm and water sprinkler systems were cut by the arsonist(s). This was not reported.

The wires were cut from the inside of the building as clearly indicated by footprints found inside the control room. Clearly the arson(s) knew the victims were present.

The slovenly old media ignored reports of fire accelerant being spread across every one of the exits in order to place a deadly wall of flames between the victims and their lives.

FBI, ATF and Alaska State Police are actively investigating this attempted murder of churchwomen peacefully and innocently working in their house of worship. The insurance company involved has deemed this a suspicious fire.

The new and established facts of this case scream that this was a concerted effort to kill people by use of fire, a crime that could have led to the arsonist(s) being shot on sight by a Wasilla police officer.

These facts change the entire story.
............................................

"coach" has more to say HERE

Someone in Wasilla may know WBC Elder Tom Ryan or be able to confirm things like phone wires cut and FBI, ATF and Alaska State Police are actively investigating.

I also think Brad Hanson may be another fringe, he is definitively an angry volatile City Council member.; 25 October 2009 at 02:23
Patrick said...: Amy1

I wished I could agree with you that babygate was "relatively easy to prove conclusively"...

It is certainly not easy IMO. The problem is that people don't believe what they don't WANT to believe. I have mentioned another example of this "phenomenon" a few months ago, and would like to repeat it here. The subject matter is very gruesome - the My Lai massacre in Vietnam 1968, when 500 Vietnamese civilians were killed by American troops.

From "things as they are - photojournalism in context since 1955", page 190:

"My Lai was a village in Vietnam where the massacre of around 500 Vietnamese civilians by American troops in 1968 was recorded by army photographer Ron Haeberle. He was about to finish his tour of duty, having seen little action, when he volunteered for a mission that promised to be 'hot'. He recorded events on three cameras - one loaded with black and white film which he turned in to the Army, and two loaded with colour which he kept for himself. For a year, Haeberle showed his photographs to civic groups in his native Cleveland, but he faced disbelief. - 'They caused no commotion...Nobody believed it. They said Americans wouldn't do this.'"

I see a clear parallel here. We also have stacks of photographs which show Sarah Palin non-pregnant - only one week before Trig was presented, she suddenly has an enormous belly. Yet, many people don't believe us. Many people might think: "An American Governor wouldn't do this - and the MSM possibly wouldn't ignore the story if it was correct!"

Therefore, we are stuck here. Unless someone in the MSM finally breaks the story, we won't have massive progress. But I am very confident that this will happen relatively soon.; 25 October 2009 at 02:34
KaJo said...: Anon@ 00:50 said "You might pitch Oprah with some questions that hold general interest to a large viewing public, for example, what kind of therapy has Trig been receiving and how is the little guy doing? What active role do Todd and Sarah (and the rest of the family) play in his therapy? That kind of thing."

I don't know why it didn't occur to me before, but anyone wanna give odds that Palin shows up on Oprah's show with Piper and Trig in tow, and Bristol along for baby-caring duties but restricted to the hotel and Oprah's "green room"?

And she complete derails the discussion by encouraging Piper to speak up on cue, and dandling Trig with a smug sappy expression on her face, like the ones we've seen her display in the Elan Frank video?

If the interview actually happens, I'll bet it's a circus, and if Oprah manages to control the situation it'll be a miracle.; 25 October 2009 at 02:37
Anonymous said...: I think it will just be Oprah and $P. Oprah's smarter and has done a lot more interviews than $P.; 25 October 2009 at 02:41
Patrick said...: Anon 02:23

Thanks a lot, I have never seen this page before.

So what do they say there:

"FACT: The phone wires and those controlling both the fire alarm and water sprinkler systems were cut by the arsonist(s). This was not reported.

FACT: The wires were cut from the inside of the building as clearly indicated by footprints found inside the control room. Clearly the arson(s) knew the victims were present."

This raises a lot of questions. First of all, if we want to believe what is written there, how should an outsider know where all these wires are, where the "control room" is etc.? This description basically screams for an "inside job", not an "outside job". Or somebody was told exactly by an insider in advance what the location looks like.

This strange website might come to another conclusion, but for me, this has "Reichstag Fire" written all over the place. Highly suspicious.; 25 October 2009 at 02:44
Anonymous said...: @ 02:30
What do you expect from a Dr. Kevin ‘Coach’ Collins?
He's another Bill Collins type.

Allegedly, the information was from Elder Tom Ryan. No one in Alaska knows him? No one can verify anything with the Wasilla fire or police?

Dr. Kevin ‘Coach’ Collins adoption ads
Angel Adoption inc
http://www.angeladoptioninc.com/index.html
Adoption Network
http://www.adoptionnetwork.com/

Patrick
I saw this when it was newer and I've left links. Because he is repulsive and fringe I figured no one was interested or looked it over or took him serious.

anon@02:23; 25 October 2009 at 02:50
Anonymous said...: Re: The Wasilla Church Fire...I'm wondering if the 17 yr. old was perhaps "with child" at the time of the fire...and if any of the 5 women were midwives?

The plot thickens....; 25 October 2009 at 02:54
Amy1 said...: Well (re the Oprah interview) it certainly will be true that SP's job is to keep Oprah from eliciting anything embarrasing out of SP. And Oprah's job will be to elicit some new and ineresting info from SP.. May he best woman win. I know who I'm pulling for!; 25 October 2009 at 02:57
anniebgood said...: To Patrick, I agree that the church fire is a big subject especially in that it very well might be connected to babygate. The whole thing is so sinister. I also agree with you at 2:34. The hurdle is that the MSM either think that they're "above" babygate or they wouldn't touch it for fear that they will lose Sarah as a long term source of ratings.; 25 October 2009 at 02:01
anniebgood said...: to Amy 2:57, it took David L and the ladies of the View to call out John McCain on his crap, maybe Oprah can outdo Katie Couric and destroy SP. I'm hoping so!; 25 October 2009 at 02:04
Amy1 said...: Although this Collins Report fits right into my worst suspicions, I'd first like to know for sure that this info is accurate, true. I've never heard of this guy, and I wonder why this info never appeared anywhere else, and why I've never seen it before. If that's true for the rest of you: red flag re this link, because there could hardly be a group of internet searchers more alert to this issue than the community here.

Please, someone, anyone: can we confirm or disprove that this info is accurate?; 25 October 2009 at 02:06
conscious at last said...: Re: the fires
First, Yes I absolutely agree with Patrick. This discussion about the fire by the "coach" is clearly an attempt to cast blame elsewhere-- Reichstag indeed- false flag operation. If you look in the upper right hand corner of that page you can see more fear mongering about Islam. It is also important to remember exactly WHEN that fire occurred. It happened around the time that we were all waiting for the appearence of T2-- and he sure took a long time. We were told that he was born 12/27/08, but we didn't see him until mid February of '09. For Ms. Publicity Hound Palin, that is strange. Clearly, there was no baby to show that early. Some how that fire is connected to this issue. Secondly, the other fire also happened around the same time. If Dar Miller was killed in a fire in 2006 or last week, I would not wonder about it. The TIMING is key here. If Dar Miller was a butcher, baker or candlestick maker, I wouldn't wonder about it, but she was a NURSE in Wasilla. Secondly, I am not impressed by the supposed fact that her doors were locked from the inside. Just last week, I watched a sweet old episode of Murder She Wrote and guess what, there was a murder, easily arranged, with the doors locked from the inside. The co-incidences are too striking here to ignore. They need more investigation.; 25 October 2009 at 02:15
Anonymous said...: 5 people in the church, not seven.

ADN article about the fire, , here.; 25 October 2009 at 02:30
Anonymous said...: Update on Wasilla fire from the ADN:

Many Wasilla Fires

Includes Dar Miller and WBC.; 25 October 2009 at 02:35
Anonymous said...: Amy1,
The Collins report information did appear other places. I've posted links. Someone in Alaska needs to find out what they can verify. It has been around the right wing blogs since January.

World Net Daily made a report and linked to Kevin Collins in his Collins Report
THE SARAH CHRONICLES
Arsonist intended murder at Palin's church?
Report: Alarm, phone wires cut, fire set at entrance
Posted: January 28, 2009

Arsonist intended murder at Palin's church? (The dementia of the left...it always turns deadly)
Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:14:37 AM

Free Republic

They all repeat that a church elder confirms. I don't even know if there is a Tom Ryan in Wasilla that is an elder at the church. If nothing else this is what the church and fringe people were told and believe.

Here is a Tom Ryan, The Crossroads?
It is a common name.

Obviously, it is a spin. If the FBI was involved, which they would have been for a hate crime, why is no statement from the FBI? They can be asked about this. It is slander and hate to put out false information about a crime. they don't blame a specific person, but it still stirs up hate. Report this to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
They might have some answers.

I've also read an article about Wasilla having an arsonist or arsonists (other than this fire). I can't find the article. If it is like a group and this is part of their intimidation to keep people quiet the Federal agents need to be on this if they are not already.; 25 October 2009 at 02:37
Anonymous said...: From the April 7, 2009 ADN article, which appears to be the latest:

Wasilla police investigator Ruth Josten said she is working on the case with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The federal agency is testing gasoline found at several places around the church for any specific additives, Josten said. She's also following any tips, though she wouldn't say how many have come in or how recently.

"Time will be on our side," she said. "You have to be willing to set a case aside, do some work on it, take in everything that anybody calls you with. An overheard conversation -- sometimes it's that minor of a situation."; 25 October 2009 at 03:03
Amy1 said...: If on this page you do a "find," going down to the third "ryan" you see a Feb 6 attempt to verify this story, with no success: neither that web page, nor I, see any mention of a church elder named Tim Ryan on the web.

Here is "Tom Ryan" of wasilla, whose "following" (thumbnails, lower right) includes KristanCole.

Here's the same stuff reported Dec 16, 4 days after the Dec 12 fire.

It all seems pretty fishy to me -- maybe that's why it was not reported more widely? And no comments by investigators. It's been almost a year.; 25 October 2009 at 03:05
Anonymous said...: I suppose someone could give this Wasilla fire "information" to Ruth Josten of Wasilla PD. She could then track Tom Ryan down, if he exists, then ask him about the statements he made.; 25 October 2009 at 03:27
sg said...: Re Oprah's interview with SP:

I think Oprah has two priorities, in this order:

1) boost her sagging ratings
2) help Obama by cutting SP, a prominent GOP figurehead

With respect to (1), I see Oprah wanting to talk about things that would "make headlines" and/or excite her viewers: why SP quit, what are SP's long term plans, SP-McCain staff feud, SP-Levi feud, wardrobe-gate, how wonderful SP looks even after undergoing all this drama, does SP have any weight control or exercise tips that might benefit Oprah and her viewers.

With respect to (2), Oprah will bring up death panels, the nasty things SP said on the campaign trail, how disliked SP is among independents. Oprah will want to get some digs in; for example, for SP saying Obama "palled around with terrorists."

The problem with Oprah bringing up babygate (even if the topic is not prohibited ahead of time) is that Oprah is at a disadvantage. There's no way she can be prepared well enough to ask sufficiently detailed questions to make a dent. SP will have all the dodges memorized:

"It's a family matter."

"Wild ride? My doctor approved it."

"Didn't you read my doctor's letter?"

"A local TV reporter took a picture of me looking very pregnant. You're asking her to not believe her own eyes?"

"If I'm not Trig's mom, who is? Bristol? By that time, she was pregnant with Tripp!"

The closest I could see Oprah come to babygate is a question like this:

"As was widely reported, there were rumors that you were not Trig's mom--your daughter Bristol was. How did you and your family feel about and react to those rumors?"

This is palatable for TV because it's not in dispute that rumors existed, and the question makes no assumption about the truth or falseness of the rumors. The hope might be that SP will be caught in a lie.

I'm not optimistic for much to come of this interview. Too much mutual back-scratching is taking place: Oprah to boost her ratings, SP to sell books.

No, a REAL journalist needs to grab the babygate baton and crack the case.; 25 October 2009 at 03:29
Anonymous said...: I'd like Oprah to ask her about the fire. What was the reason that she felt it had to do with her? May be the ATF told her something that indicated a hate crime?; 25 October 2009 at 03:34
Anonymous said...: If Ruth Josten of Wasilla PD, the FBI and ATF didn't know about the Collins Report and the others, that is pretty sad.

That would indicate incompetence or corruption at all levels.

Why would the internet not be monitored? Were computers destroyed in the fire?

Although Palin is not directly involved, the facts of her campaign style and her warnings from Homeland Security, plus she responded as if this was something her persona attracted. The investigators would ignore the internet?; 25 October 2009 at 03:45
Anonymous said...: There is a photo of the Kevin "Coach" Collins person and I hope someone can make screen copies of all the articles that link to him. If he is real, the ATF can get that information. Also this Tom Ryan.

Someone is targeting a group. It is worse than hate. If an unstable person or someone who was under stress thought someone tried to kill their church members and the left wing media was covering it up that could unhinge someone.

If it is on the internet and they respect WDN and the others, why wouldn't they believe that the gays did that? Collins kept saying FACT. Prehaps your pastor is telling you the Collin "FACTS."

Look at all the things that Anchorage was going through with LGBT and the churches that were busing adult and children from Wasilla in to protest. There was a lot of hate. How many people believed the LGBT community tried to kill their loved ones?

If "Coach" Collins and Tom Ryan are fictional that whole thing is still a crime.; 25 October 2009 at 04:06
Anonymous said...: I agree with sg's idea of how the Oprah show will go. Let's face it, Sarah already has a rehearsed answer in case she is challenged with "Are you really Trig's mother?" "Of course I am his mother, and he teaches all of us about God's love...." Of course, Sarah NOW is mother (on paper), and she is capable of shifting any question into the answer that she wants to give.

I think that Oprah plays to her audience, asking the sorts of questions that they want answers to. A natural for Sarah & Oprah is how those two busy career gals manage to get everything done in a busy day (LOL). Oprah is about diet, healthy living, spirituality, being your better (best) self. I wonder what scent Sarah uses for her bath candles? How long does she soak, and what music is gently playing in the background? I wonder if the bath salts and bubble match the candle scent.

Secret desire: I wish that Oprah had the guts to tackle tough issues, such as the latent racism and nastiness in Sarah's campaign speeches. Why has Sarah abandoned the GOP in favor of the very conservative elements that used to be Republicans. Would Sarah like to tell some inside stories about that nasty bunch of McCain people?; 25 October 2009 at 04:25
Anonymous said...: 5 adult women and a 17 year old girl???

Was this a "counseling" session re: pending adoption?

Just trying to make sure I'm not either A) really really thick or B) blowing that statement out of proportion.

Is anyone else reading the same implication into that?; 25 October 2009 at 04:34
Anonymous said...: @anon00:56, something must really be ruffling your feathers if a suggestion that Alaska bloggers write to the Oprah show, asking to be included as experts appears here and there.

Most of those bloggers are not anonymous. You and I, we choose to be anonymous, but several of the Alaska Bloggers were "outed" whether they wanted their identities revealed or not. And, what they know and could say about Sarah must upset you if I suggested that they might like to show up and simply make Sarah a little uneasy with their presence.

As for the Oprah show and how it works, there was an extensive article in the Chicago Tribune a few years ago describing how to get in to see the Oprah show when scoring tickets is harder than winning the lottery.

One suggestion was to take notice of the subjects coming up on next week's shows, and offering one's self up as an expert, or some one who could share a similar experience. If you haven't looked at the Oprah website, there are boxes where viewers can suggest topics for shows. Where do you think Oprah gets her subjects for makeovers?

And, no, the Oprah people do not have time to go out and do investigative work, looking for experts. This might come as a shock to you, but some of those "experts" that we do see on TV have agents who manage to get them booked on shows. They may have written a book, or do whatever it is for a living. The advantage is all this nice publicity, jobs and sales in it for them, and some money, too.

How do other TV shows work? We have a friend who works for Ellen. Alot of the people who show up on Ellen's show, for example, the people who have a story of need and end up in the money machine. The Ellen people do not have time to go looking for needy people; the people write in and offer up their stories to the Ellen people.

Ditto for Dr. Phil, where he holds up the letter of somebody asking him to solve their family problem. Dr.Phil does not have time to go looking for people.

It must scare you to think of someone actually asking Sarah a couple of tough questions. She ran for a major national office without ever holding a press conference or appearing on a Sunday morning political talk show. Sarah hides behind Face Book posts without having to defend her position. No one can attend a Sarah Speech with camera, cell phone, recording device or anything else that would hold her accountable. It's nice of you to worry about her, but other than sitting on a soft sofa with Oprah, Sarah doesn't answer tough questions.; 25 October 2009 at 04:52
Patrick said...: Wow - Sarah is the cheapest Queen ever!

Newsmax Sarah Palin Offer

"Sarah Palin's stunning new autobiography won't be released until Nov. 17, but you can get one of the very first copies by taking advantange of Newsmax's incredible offer today.

This book retails for almost $29 — but you can get it for only $4.97 plus $5.95 for shipping — with a FREE four month subscription to Newsmax magazine!

Plus we'll send you another FREE bonus, a copy of Newsmax magazine's special report, Sarah Palin and "The Newer Feminism," revealing how Sarah is changing the politics of womanhood.

This is an additional $5 value — making your total bonus value almost $54!"; 25 October 2009 at 04:56
Anonymous said...: 04:34
What time was the fire? Are there any public records as to what was happening that night? All that would be part of the investigation, but they don't have to tell. 5 adult women and a 17 year old girl could be there for one reason and tell investigators another story.

What your thinking sounds like a possibility.

When you compare this to other church crimes it just seems weirder. Some church people are more open and talk to the press. They might say we were getting ready for the banquet or whatever.
Alaska has horrible journalists and the town of Wasilla has a problem with talking.; 25 October 2009 at 05:03
Anonymous said...: Patrick,
Those Newsmax offers has been around since the start of Going Rogue.; 25 October 2009 at 05:06
Patrick said...: Anon 05:06

Sorry, I didn't see it before.; 25 October 2009 at 05:14
Anonymous said...: That whole Collins Report sounds Rovian. Isn't that how Rove would do things for Bush? Get a spin out. Next World Nut Daily, Drudge would repeat it and others would pass it on. No matter how big the lie it was "truth" after awhile.

How many are there in Sarah's church? A few thousand? They are the ones that matter. They haven't been clamoring for answers, so they must be satisfied the gays set the fire.

It does make sense the Anchorage events were so extreme if that is the secret the church people were told and no one could say it. Didn't they bus kids from Wasilla to Anchorage to protest against gay rights?; 25 October 2009 at 05:18
Anonymous said...: Oprah should ask her about the fire.
You know church fires are a big deal.
The difference in how the media and authorities are doing the Wasilla fire and what we've seen with church fires in the south is apparent.

Palin had her initial moment of emotion about it and a year later she must have many feelings she could talk about. It is healing to discuss things with Oprah. Especially, something Oprah would have a connection.; 25 October 2009 at 05:31
hannah said...: I posted this on the previous thread -- but when I realized the conversation had shifted here, I wanted to post it here as well. It's a point I've been meaning to make for days -- ever since I realized that Jesse is regurgitating the same 'botcrap over and over, while claiming that it is the 'obvious' truth.

Posted on the CBJ letter thread:

Bottom line re. why I don't give much attention to Jesse Cornball is that he constantly gives as 'proof' that SP birthed Trig-- the 'testimony' of CBJ. How many times have you heard him reference the "doctor's letter" or "doctor's testimony"?

What he is trying to do is an SP classic -- say something so often that eventually people believe it.

But when you consider the FACTS of CBJ's 'testimony'?

Fact: She was asked to simply confirm that she simply wrote the eleventh hour 'medical records' letter. She said she "could not comment".

Why on earth not? SP supposedly ASKED this physician to speak regarding her medical records. Yet CBJ wouldn't offer a simple "yes, I wrote the letter at the request of Mrs Palin". Saying "I can't comment" when asked an extremely simple, direct, yes or no question...shows that SOMETHING is afoot, certainly.

But the kicker regarding CBJ's "testimony"? (Jesse continually calls it testimony even though it was neither court-related nor on the record) is this--
FACT: when ADN editor Pat D asked her point blank (AFTER palin auth'd CBJ to speak regarding her medical history) "can you confirm that Sarah Palin delivered Trig Palin?"
and CBJ didn't even try to "no comment" her way out of this one -- she, with an ATTORNEY present (why?) said an unequivocal "I cannot confirm that."

Jesse and anyone else who thinks there is nothing going on here...wake up and smell the moose chili.

Supposed delivering doctor, authorized to speak on Palin's medical history and the birth of Trig...said she "could not confirm" that Palin delivered Trig.

She did not say that she WOULD not confirm it. She said she COULD not confirm it. Read between the lines there, right? If she witnessed the birth and for whatever reason didn't want to comment...she might say she will not/would not confirm palin's story of Trig's birth.

If she didn't witness the birth and thusly had no clue as to the real birth circumstances OR knew them to be patently false as told by Sarah Palin...she would (and did) say that she COULD NOT confirm Palin's account of Trig's birth.

If SP is telling the truth, why would CBJ say those things? Answer-- she would NOT say those things without good cause.

And why would Palin refuse to provide either child's birth certificate when that would settle this issue once and for all? It's documented beyond any doubt that she adores showing up her naysayers. Yet she refuses to provide this simple documentation. If you think she's refusing to invalidate these rumours for 'funsies'...well, it's no wonder her followers have such a reputation for having the "flamingo mentality".; 25 October 2009 at 07:33
Anonymous said...: is there e a link for the dr saying "cannot confirm"?

I'd really like to follow up on that.

That is the final nail.

That is incredible to me. According to Palin, that dr birthered her of Trig. So, wtf? How could she not confirm?; 25 October 2009 at 07:38
Anonymous said...: anon@ 02:30 and 02:35,
Thank you. I'm glad you found those 2 ADN articles on the WBC fire (Dec 2008 and April 2009). My memory was vague. I thought I'd remembered reading about the FBI and ATF but couldn't remember where. I was curious when I'd read others say the FBI wasn't involved in the WBC fire. I'd read about the FBI in the Collins Report. And the ATF and multible fires in the ADN.

I meant to write Bill Collier NOT: "He's another Bill Collins type." @02:50. Funny thing is that is how I came across it again. Didn't remember the name Collins. Tonight when I was looking for Collier and church fire I accidently put in Collins and came across that Collins report again. When I'd tried before to find that "report" I could never remember the name!
I thought it may have been what the WBC members were told. They could have read it in WND, including Sarah and all the Palins. If that is the gossip going around, that might be their version.

Thank you,
anon@02:23
anon 02:37
anon 02:50
on 25 October 2009; 25 October 2009 at 08:28
Anonymous said...: IMO, the Oprah/Palin meeting will be for the most part a wash. I'd like more, just don't know that is what Oprah has in mind or their agreement could be restrictive.

Are there any Oprah watchers out there ? ? ? ?

Has she done any programs on the church burnings in the south or any place for that matter?

It has to be something she feels deeply and she would know the history.

She is to meet with Sarah Palin for an interview. Palin would know what people have gone through when the church she attended was burned by arson. Her family attended the church soon after the fire. They would know what people were feeling and thinking. Sarah may be able to share an update on the investigation. If not, it is still something they could both connect. Perhaps Palin wrote about the fire in her book.

Will someone bring this up to Oprah?; 25 October 2009 at 09:00
hannah said...: Anon 7 38

I am on my blackberry (just ONE for me thanks!) and I do not have the link to the ADN piece where CBJ says she "could not confirm" that she delivered Trig. But -- Patrick has linked to it quite recently I THINK, maybe the CBJ post a few days ago, even. My point is -- even if he wasn't linking to the article I was talking about, he knows it and can come up with the reference info quickly.

It should also be noted that this "interview" that the ADN did with CBJ after babygate rumours reached a high crest -- never was printed or featured in any kind of newsforum appropriate manner. CBJ saying she could not, as in, was not able to, confirm that she herself delivered Trig -- had to raise major eyebrows amongst even the most palin-devoted at ADN.; 25 October 2009 at 13:36
Anonymous said...: Most of the criticism about Muthee and Palin focuses on the blessing or laying on of hands part. . .but the matter of REAL concern occurs minutes prior, wherein Muthee claims that the Church must take over the media and the government.

That is what is truly bone-chilling, not the laying on of hands. This is rarely reported.

Ditto with the video of Sarah blessing the newly minted ministers. . .wherein she claims that although she is Governor, all that is within her power to do means 'nothing' 'until Alaska's heart is right with God.'

This woman is a direct threat to our Constitution and our government.; 25 October 2009 at 14:13
Anonymous said...: Patrick, Hannah, someone please post the link form ADN with CBJ saying she can't confirm Sarah birthing Trig. I'll pop it off to HARPO with another letter. This is huge. I was under impression when CBJ was with her lawyer she said "no comment". But saying "I can't confirm" is hugely different. Hugely. Weird. Ridiculous. Final nail in coffin IMHO.
Thanks anyone who can provide link.

WV: toils
yes we've all been toiling on this hard, some more than others, but eventually hard work pays off.; 25 October 2009 at 14:27
hannah said...: Oh -- couple of things I forgot to mention.

Re the comment Regina featured:
isn't it just SUCH a COINCIDENCE that all of the people who either are or have known someone who "never showed" despite weighing 106lbs and being 4 ft 10 and having given birth to 16lb babies after water leaking for MUCH longer than sarah palin's did...just happen to be anonymous babygate deniers? And despite there being soooo MANY of them...we've yet to see a verifiable identity or photo that supports their claims?

Secondly -- after reading Jesse Corndog's blog...I am not sure he is a 'real' conservative. Among many guffaw-inducing GEMS on his blog:
Sarah Palin should keep making "positive change" for America.

Sarah Palin employs "brilliant strategy".

And the one that just shows Jesse's amazing --um, let's call it 'insight'...he says that Palin will have proven her critics wrong and be on top politically in a year's time...

Yeah, because she has really accomplished sooo much in the LAST YEAR, right?!? Ethics violations galore, throwing her minor child to the dogs rather than providing a simple and easily obtained birth certificate, quitting yet ANOTHER job...I mean, why would one NOT think SP would have another banner year?!

I do NOT advocate feeding the trolls -- I truly do not. But his blog is one of the funniest things I've seen since the Bittah Twittah Quittah couldn't name one single book, magazine, or website she reads.; 25 October 2009 at 14:36
sjk from the belly of the plane said...: I am EXTREMLEY worried. staplemouth has not confirmed ANYTHING as of late..

;-); 25 October 2009 at 14:46
sjk from the belly of the plane said...: of course CBJ cant confirm. that would be lyin', also too.; 25 October 2009 at 14:50
Anonymous said...: Anon@4:52, if your idea is so good, why have all the bloggers you asked to do this turned you down?; 25 October 2009 at 15:11
hannah said...: SJKftBOtP-- when I saw that mega-pro palin Pat D of the daily palin, I mean ADN revealed that CBJ 'could not confirm' SP's version of Trig's birth -- I thought it was huge. I was surprised that it wasn't a make or break issue concerning babygate.; 25 October 2009 at 15:20
ProChoiceGrandma said...: Helen, thanks for your comment @ 17:49, but I am still trying to learn how to make a hyperlink! Lol
I have many little talents, but professional writing is not among those! Suggestions, yes. Opinions, hell yes, and some of those opinions are set in concrete, others are still waiting for a few more ingredients before the concrete is set.
Helen, I would rather see you, midnightcajun and Amy1 make guest posts, but I am leaving out so many others who I admire. Mrs. Tarquin BiscuitBarrel would probably have us in stitches with her wit. I would love to see a guest post from her! There are so many talented people that comment here at Palingates and my other favorite sites like BreePalin, Nailinpalinnow, Hypocrites and Heffalump Traps. And my favorite go-to-site for learning more about the religious nutcakes who are trying to turn this country into a theocrazy is Leah Burton’s “God’s Own Party?”, previously “Theopalinism”. I would love to see Leah do a guest post something like “Religiongate for Beginners”.
Helen, I still thank you for your excellent article (among the many) that you wrote about Scientology. I had never bothered before to read anything about Scientology and it blew my socks off when I read your article. Holy crap, another invented religion, simply to attain power and money.
http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/2009/04/palins-coale-keeps-scientologys.html
Scientology; 25 October 2009 at 15:32
ProChoiceGrandma said...: Finally, my first hyperlink actually worked!; 25 October 2009 at 15:33
wayofpeace said...: FYI

Alaskans await progress on Palin pipeline plan / DAN JOLING | October 25, 2009 AP

ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Sarah Palin hit the vice presidential campaign trail last year and touted what Alaska could provide for the rest of America – a natural gas pipeline to help lead the country to energy independence.

When a pipeline might be built remains a giant question for Alaskans who need the project to support a vulnerable economy and for the Lower 48 states that need the gas, and a petroleum economist who spent more than 25 years in the Alaska Department of Revenue says it may never happen under Palin's plan.

The former governor's proposal used faulty accounting to reach the flawed conclusion that a pipeline owned by a third-party would be more profitable than one owned by major gas producers, who must be on board for any project to be successful, wrote Roger Marks.... Palin's alternative, Marks said, discourages their participation and may even stand in the way of a more financially viable project.

"The prospects for success in getting a pipeline constructed appear doubtful," he wrote.; 25 October 2009 at 15:52
Anonymous said...: At Mudflats, BuffaloGal posted this, I don't see it here, please let me share her comment:

Whoa – JR Dunn put in a whole lotta work in to trying to do some damage control for the upcoming book release. This piece is a doozy and I predict it will gobbled up like Thanksgiving dinner by Palinistas everywhere.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/the_slander_network.html#

>>>>The anti-Palin campaign was intended to implant myths so complex, so convoluted, and so widespread that they could never be completely countered. The American left has developed the art of slander to a degree never previously achieved. It’s one thing they’re good at. Not even the most acid-tongued gossips of the Bourbon court at Versailles were quite the match of contemporary left-wing political operatives. <<>>The basic hypothesis is simple: that there exists an organized, centrally-controlled network, based on the Internet and related technical systems, entirely devoted to spreading slander and disinformation against individuals — primarily politicians — opposed to the progressive program. This system utilizes e-mail, comment threads, Facebook, Twitter, and whatever somebody invented last week. It is staffed and operated by the usual left-wing suspects — students, eccentrics, outpatients, paranoiacs — layabouts with plenty of time on their hands. It operates in loose coordination with the legacy media and liberal political operatives, forming the third leg of a national left-wing propaganda machine. It operates sub-rosa and without acknowledgement — exposure would leech it of much of its power.<<<; 25 October 2009 at 16:24
midnightcajun said...: Suggestions for future posts:

Barb Dwyer's comment giving us the history of Sarah's association with the oil and gas commission might be brought out of the relative obscurity of the comments and made into a blog topic of it's own. This is very, very interesting! (Thanks, Barb, that answered many questions I've had.) I think her behavior in this is very telling and reveals a pattern we've come to know--throwing associates under the bus, pretending to resign for a reason very different from the true motivation, lying and getting away with it, etc.

And what's this about her resigning to keep from being recalled as mayor? I knew she'd faced a recall early--which is why they hired a city manager. Why was she facing a recall in her second term? Wasn't she elected a second time?

Personally, I would love to see SOMEONE address the meme we constantly hear about Sarah "taking on the corruption in her own party." Barb? Do you know the truth here, too? This line has never made any sense to me. How does an air-headed Wasilbilly with no one behind her take on corrupt officials and bring them down? Especially in a state where no one seems to be willing to cross Miss Wasilla by standing up to her corruption. So what really happened?

I simply do not understand how someone so incompetent has managed to bury her incompetence every step of the way. And how she could have taken on and defeated such intrenched powerful interests. Is it because she has been a figurehead for other powerful forces for a long time? I think there is a story buried here that no one has found. Babygate is a part of it, but only one part.; 25 October 2009 at 16:29
Anonymous said...: hannah, thanks for your comments. I remember back last fall reading up on that doctor. She delivered like three babies over a long period of time, year or more. I was surprised that no one questioned her allowing SP to travel knowing the baby had DS (of course, she wasn't pregnant, but just saying).

---

The most interesting information on SP's religion, I found on Talk2Action site. The first video discusses the seven mountains and the last video has her spiritual adviser talking about SP and displacing folks from the land.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/11/5/13585/8320

Sorry, hyperlinking goes right over my head!

Great comments, all! I am glad those fires are being discussed, too. I had a sick feeling when I read about Dar.; 25 October 2009 at 16:51
ginny said...: I keep seeing this report that CBJ "could not confirm" that Trig was born to SP, but I see no reference to back it up. What is the reference for this quote? Or is it just hearsay? I think we need to make a point to note if something is hearsay or if it is a verifiable quote or fact.
I've googled and can't find the reference for this supposed quote.

wv: paves, as in "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"; 25 October 2009 at 17:41
Anonymous said...: "Well she's not going to allow that, so if the press insists on covering her ad nauseum and thereby giving her an artifical sense of importance and platform to laud the issues she "so passionate about" then they ought to get down to asking her some serious questions. They could begin by asking her why she stole a cushion off her couch and insisted on hiding it under her blouse for 2 months in 2008."

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/palin-endorses-hoffman-sn_n_331279.html; 25 October 2009 at 17:44
Anonymous said...: "I wonder if she advised him to fake a pre/gnancy?"

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/palin-endorses-hoffman-sn_n_331279.html; 25 October 2009 at 17:47
Anonymous said...: Regina

Just to say that I love your photo of the Sydney Opera House. I was fortunate enough to see my very first performance of Macbeth there many moons ago....makes me wistful when I realise just how many!

Enjoy your trip.....your next travels should be to us.; 25 October 2009 at 18:05
Patrick said...: Everybody:

There is no "link" for the information regarding the "secret" interview Cathy Badlwin-Johnson with the ADN. This is inside information which the Palindeception team once had received from an extremely reliable source, who had contacts to the ADN. I will probably explain this in a blog soon. I had mentioned this story several times in the comments before.

Here is the story again:

You are all probably aware of the story that Lisa Demer from the ADN was supposed to write about the "babygate rumors" at the end of last year - the story which the ADN wouldn't print in the end. The editor Pat Dougherty complained in his editor's blog that Sarah Palin did not support this investigation at all, although it was meant to disprove the rumors. I had blogged about this ADN investigation here:

Sarah Palin, the Anchorage Daily News and the State of Alaska – A Delicate Relationship?

From what we had heard from our excellent source, the story was that the ADN asked to interview Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, and that she tried to refuse first, but in the end Cathy Baldwin-Johnson agreed to be interviewed, but brought her lawyer with her to the interview with the ADN! Asked whether she delivered Trig, CBJ simply said that she "could not confirm" this, and the ADN didn't press further.

The ADN never ever mentioned this interview anywhere.

When I wrote to Pat Dougherty several weeks ago (see my blog above), I had mentioned this interview in my email to him, and when he replied, he didn't respond to this fact I had mentioned, but just ignored it. He didn't "confirm" that the interview happened, but didn't deny it either, which is in line with the obvious general rule that the ADN has taken which is that the the ADN doesn't talk about this interview at all.; 25 October 2009 at 18:07
Barb Dwyer said...: midnightcajun:

The first thing you can be sure of is that if SP said it, it simply isn't true. Sarah was blessed with convenient timing and nothing else in "cleaning up the corruption" up here. It's laughable really.

We have/had what everyone called "the corrupt bastards club" up here. About 6 years ago the FBI started investigating politicians in Alaska at all levels for taking bribes and put a whole slew of them in jail. At last count I think it was 11 or 12 former legislators are now currently serving time in federal prisons. Ted Stevens and most recently Don Young were the latest criminals caught in that operation.

Most of those indictments and sentences were handed out while she was Governor but she had absolutely nothing to do with it. It just happened that they were sentenced while she was guarding the hen house. The FBI was investigating them all long before she took office. The FBI has also stated they are a long way from done up here, which leads me to believe that Sarah will be doing time as well.

The person behind much of the bribing, (Bill Allen of VECO) has been singing like a bird to try and stay out of prison. His freedom is about over though as he is slated to be sentenced next week. He was who Ted Stevens was talking to on the phone when uncle Ted stated "the worst that could happen is we do a little jail time." VECO gave a LOT of money to SP and since everyone else they gave money to was indicted, I see no reason to believe she won't be taken down also.

So she just happened to be on the couch havin' a snack when all this happened and decided to take credit for it. She had absolutely nothing to do with it, in fact all she did was be complicit in making things worse; 25 October 2009 at 18:35
emrysa said...: patrick you should send that bill collier "chat" to the atf. I am sure they would be very interested in that. freedom fires? this guy should be considered a suspect.; 25 October 2009 at 18:56
Anonymous said...: http://bauergriffinonline.com/2009/10/bundchen-bumps-around.php

Bundchen is due December 14th. I am sure she is jealous of $P because her abs aren't as tight as Sarah's.
Somehow Gisele's scarf isn't camouflaging her pregnancy as well as Sarah's did either.; 25 October 2009 at 19:06
Anonymous said...: It looks as though informative and snarky comments about Sarah's gates are being accepted at HuffPo.

Another avenue could be all the book review/snark articles that will be written.

Are there Romney/Gingrich sites that might accept comments?

It may be that now she's crossed the Republican party, she's fairgame !!!; 25 October 2009 at 19:11
Anonymous said...: Barb

Is there any chance Bill Allen could rat out Sarah regarding housegate in order to cut down his jail time?

I had always hoped Ted Stevens was going to rat her out to reduce his sentence.; 25 October 2009 at 19:20
Anonymous said...: At dailykos there is some live blogging with Max Blumenthal.; 25 October 2009 at 19:42
Anonymous said...: CONGRATULATIONS PCG!!!!

@ emrysa
I'm with you on that bill collier "chat." What about hate crime monitors? Does anyone have a list? that kevin collins "chat" was over the top.
Patrick, what say you? Who all do we contact when we come across these dangerous loons?

Not only does a 44 year old Palin have tight abs she is the scarf fashion genius of the century. Bundchen can't hold a candle to the pro.
ht 19:06; 25 October 2009 at 20:06
Anonymous said...: I am not very artsy or internet savy
but thought a good idea would be to create one web page

With Palin's photo in the center.. not one of her crazy ones.. perhaps a fancy campaign one.. semi flattering is fine

So her in the middle of this page and all around her little paragraphs depicting all her "gates" and lies

like circling her if that makes sense.. but very readable and just a short synopsis

like:
Trig
Over a month before he was due she went into labor leaking fluid
Rather than be "concerned" she flew (so many miles) and passed these hospitals
Priority was giving a speech risking: and then list the risks to Trig's life

Dairy
Short blurb

Her home
short blab about the sports complex and similar structure and timing

Todd's envolvement with Sucessionist Party
Wanted campaign person to lie and say he couldnt read the ballot when in fact.. yadda yadda

Just a one page synopsis of everything all floating around her head

and make the photo flattering so people will want to see the page

that one link can be plastered all over the net :)

When we link to a blog.. people are forced to sit down and sift through ect..

but a one page in that type format (or a better one) kept simple but it is all right there in front of you .. i think would be pretty cool

Then at the bottom can be all the footnotes with links galore to articles / blogs proving each and every fact

-anne s.

(fyi.. in case anyone gives a hoot :D i know noone cares.. but I post anonymous alot because when I sign into Google it makes me visible on my google account.. sometimes I don't want to show up on "buddy lists" because I am on here for just a short time.. i'm not being a sneaky sneak); 25 October 2009 at 20:33
hannah said...: Patrick, thanks for clarifying the "could not confirm" issue. I thought that pat d had mentioned it in his editors blog.

Surely he realized that not denying the 'secret' CBJ interview he might as well have done a front page headline announcing that it did in fact happen.

When the SP follies turns into a traveling show...I know Pat Dougherty will be somewhere in the dance corps!

WV= pkrite
p + k (Patrick & Kathleen) are "rite" about SP!; 25 October 2009 at 20:42
snowbilly said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 25 October 2009 at 21:02
hannah said...: Jesse, in regard to your question -- you'll need to contact pat dougherty, ADN editor...and ask him why he elected not to print the interview to which I refer -- where CBJ said she "could not confirm" that she delivered Trig.

And possibly do a little research -- find ten or twelve random obgyn/ob doctors in your phone book or your beloved google. Call and tell them that an acquaintance is age 43, pregnant with her fifth child, and has experienced premature rupture of membranes. Be sure to mention that said woman has entered the first stage of labour more than a month early, and that the infant has been confirmably diagnosed with Trisomy 21 and a heart defect that may require surgery.

Tell them that your friend has an event to attend and is determined to do so. Now inform them that her travel schedule will put her in the air for approximately ten hours and on the ground/airport/in a vehicle for another ten to twelve hours. Oh, and be sure to let them know that not only does she NOT have a neonatal specialist, but the attending physician is not even an obgyn.

Tie the whole thing up by letting them know that your friend bypassed multiple NICU equipped hospitals in order to deliver at a facility that is SO I'll equipped for high risk deliveries, they do not even allow twins to be scheduled for delivery there.

Ask these doctors' offices how you should advise your friend.

I personally guarantee that not one physican will say "sure, that's fine...she'll be ok".

Furthermore -- I predict that at least half the physicians will display remarkable shock and concern at the situation described above. I would not be at all surprised if one or more of these physicians expressed a concern so great, they would call this person's fitness as a mother into question.

You know, this isn't a bad idea for all of us -- to contact random obgyn/ob offices...and go through the process outlined above. I know it does not prove anything on its own -- but it serves to highlight the sheer outrageousness of SP's wild ride claims, especially as they relate to CBJ and her supposed middle of the night 'advising' to SP.

We could put the contact info for the doctors' offices for verification purposes. Many doctors have web sites that show email addresses -- we could have a blogpost just for this- to display the correspondences and phone call summaries that comprise the doctors/doctors' offices responses.

Thoughts?; 25 October 2009 at 21:41
Anonymous said...: -anne s.20:33

That sounds like good marketing, artsy and internet savvy to boot.; 25 October 2009 at 21:45
hannah said...: I'll equipped = Ill equipped

Stupid auto correct! Sorry.; 25 October 2009 at 21:49
Anonymous said...: On the Oprah and Sarah show

I am preplexed by this:

PJama brings up the The Klansman Lesson
"Oprah had come to the conclusion that you do not give people with outrageous, egregious platforms a voice.
So I guess they'll be disusing "death panels" on the program."

Any comments?; 25 October 2009 at 21:59
Amy1 said...: Well! What a great Sun AM read. This is prob one of the best open threads ever. So much good talk.

Patrick -- I just hate to ever disagree with you because I have so much respect for what you are doing here, so I wanted to add that the only reason I said "babygate is relatively easy to prove" is that IMHO we have already proved it. Not a lot of public awareness of that fact, yet, but it seems rock-solid proved to me. The photographs. And because this is an issue where you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Yes, she might spin it for sympathy later, and yes some people might buy that, but the hoax is a fact. Unlike all the other Palingates so far, where it all looks mighty convincing but it's not a 100% proved thing. And, unlike pregnancy, there is more wiggle room, even once the facts are lined up. Although I sincerely do hope some or all of them will eventually reach that "proved" stage.

Patrick: also, thank you LOTS for letting us at least discuss the incest/Track/fires issues. I learned a lot, including the bogus Collier thing -- good to know it's bogus, although that doesn't detract from the suspiciousness of the fires. Just adds to it, in fact, but from the opposite side. Also Thx for clarifying the CBJ "I cannot comment" quote. All these bits and pieces are so important in eventually bringing this to closure.

PCG: congrats on doing a link in text! Have to disagree with you, too: you are a GREAT writer, and I always love to read your posts.

Barb Dwyer: so glad you have joined us.

Hannah: you noted once that your name is a palindrome, so here's my fave palindrome for you: T. Eliot, top bard, notes putrid tang emanating, is sad. I'd assign it a name: gnat dirt upset on drab pot toilet. I've come to think this palindrome has something to do with SP, but not sure exactly what, yet.

Anyway, just a big cheery hello to this fine community of people here.; 25 October 2009 at 22:28
Anonymous said...: """ Patrick said...
Everybody:

There is no "link" for the information regarding the "secret" interview Cathy Badlwin-Johnson with the ADN. This is inside information which the Palindeception team once had received from an extremely reliable source, who had contacts to the ADN. I will probably explain this in a blog soon. I had mentioned this story several times in the comments before.

Here is the story again:

You are all probably aware of the story that Lisa Demer from the ADN was supposed to write about the "babygate rumors" at the end of last year - the story which the ADN wouldn't print in the end. The editor Pat Dougherty complained in his editor's blog that Sarah Palin did not support this investigation at all, although it was meant to disprove the rumors. I had blogged about this ADN investigation here:

Sarah Palin, the Anchorage Daily News and the State of Alaska – A Delicate Relationship?

From what we had heard from our excellent source, the story was that the ADN asked to interview Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, and that she tried to refuse first, but in the end Cathy Baldwin-Johnson agreed to be interviewed, but brought her lawyer with her to the interview with the ADN! Asked whether she delivered Trig, CBJ simply said that she "could not confirm" this, and the ADN didn't press further.

The ADN never ever mentioned this interview anywhere.

When I wrote to Pat Dougherty several weeks ago (see my blog above), I had mentioned this interview in my email to him, and when he replied, he didn't respond to this fact I had mentioned, but just ignored it. He didn't "confirm" that the interview happened, but didn't deny it either, which is in line with the obvious general rule that the ADN has taken which is that the the ADN doesn't talk about this interview at all."""

Thank you for setting the record straight, Patrick. I see you continue to peddle a lie even though you have no proof to back it up. Of course, it always an "anonymous rumor from an anonymous, but reliable source."

Is that the best you have?; 25 October 2009 at 22:58
Anonymous said...: """ hannah said...
Oh -- couple of things I forgot to mention.

Re the comment Regina featured:
isn't it just SUCH a COINCIDENCE that all of the people who either are or have known someone who "never showed" despite weighing 106lbs and being 4 ft 10 and having given birth to 16lb babies after water leaking for MUCH longer than sarah palin's did...just happen to be anonymous babygate deniers? And despite there being soooo MANY of them...we've yet to see a verifiable identity or photo that supports their claims?

Secondly -- after reading Jesse Corndog's blog...I am not sure he is a 'real' conservative. Among many guffaw-inducing GEMS on his blog:
Sarah Palin should keep making "positive change" for America.

Sarah Palin employs "brilliant strategy".

And the one that just shows Jesse's amazing --um, let's call it 'insight'...he says that Palin will have proven her critics wrong and be on top politically in a year's time...

Yeah, because she has really accomplished sooo much in the LAST YEAR, right?!? Ethics violations galore, throwing her minor child to the dogs rather than providing a simple and easily obtained birth certificate, quitting yet ANOTHER job...I mean, why would one NOT think SP would have another banner year?!

I do NOT advocate feeding the trolls -- I truly do not. But his blog is one of the funniest things I've seen since the Bittah Twittah Quittah couldn't name one single book, magazine, or website she reads."""

Hey, we could always use a little more laughter in the world.

Trust me, you still be grasping at straws a year from now. I'll be sitting back laughing at the slow and inevitable demise of the Trig Truthers as the true believers abandon ship.; 25 October 2009 at 23:02
Anonymous said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4; 25 October 2009 at 23:13
Anonymous said...: """I posted this on the previous thread -- but when I realized the conversation had shifted here, I wanted to post it here as well. It's a point I've been meaning to make for days -- ever since I realized that Jesse is regurgitating the same 'botcrap over and over, while claiming that it is the 'obvious' truth."""

It is.

"""
Posted on the CBJ letter thread:

Bottom line re. why I don't give much attention to Jesse Cornball is that he constantly gives as 'proof' that SP birthed Trig-- the 'testimony' of CBJ. How many times have you heard him reference the "doctor's letter" or "doctor's testimony"?

What he is trying to do is an SP classic -- say something so often that eventually people believe it.
"""

You could just say ad nauseum.

"""
But when you consider the FACTS of CBJ's 'testimony'?

Fact: She was asked to simply confirm that she simply wrote the eleventh hour 'medical records' letter. She said she "could not comment".
"""

You know, I looked for this statement. I could not find it. Eventually I posted a reply asking you for a link. But that was in another thread, and you decided to post here. Now I find that Patrick himself has admitted he has nothing to substantiate that quote, while still clinging to the hope that it might be true.

"""
Why on earth not? SP supposedly ASKED this physician to speak regarding her medical records. Yet CBJ wouldn't offer a simple "yes, I wrote the letter at the request of Mrs Palin". Saying "I can't comment" when asked an extremely simple, direct, yes or no question...shows that SOMETHING is afoot, certainly.
"""

Simply not true.; 25 October 2009 at 23:16
Anonymous said...: """
But the kicker regarding CBJ's "testimony"? (Jesse continually calls it testimony even though it was neither court-related nor on the record) is this--
"""

http://www.answers.com/testimony

There is more than one definition to a word.

"""
FACT: when ADN editor Pat D asked her point blank (AFTER palin auth'd CBJ to speak regarding her medical history) "can you confirm that Sarah Palin delivered Trig Palin?"
and CBJ didn't even try to "no comment" her way out of this one -- she, with an ATTORNEY present (why?) said an unequivocal "I cannot confirm that."
"""

Why do you repeat something you can't back up?

"""
Jesse and anyone else who thinks there is nothing going on here...wake up and smell the moose chili.

Supposed delivering doctor, authorized to speak on Palin's medical history and the birth of Trig...said she "could not confirm" that Palin delivered Trig.

She did not say that she WOULD not confirm it. She said she COULD not confirm it. Read between the lines there, right? If she witnessed the birth and for whatever reason didn't want to comment...she might say she will not/would not confirm palin's story of Trig's birth.

If she didn't witness the birth and thusly had no clue as to the real birth circumstances OR knew them to be patently false as told by Sarah Palin...she would (and did) say that she COULD NOT confirm Palin's account of Trig's birth.

If SP is telling the truth, why would CBJ say those things? Answer-- she would NOT say those things without good cause.
"""

What a waste of effort. All those paragraphs were written with the belief in a false premise.

"""
And why would Palin refuse to provide either child's birth certificate when that would settle this issue once and for all? It's documented beyond any doubt that she adores showing up her naysayers. Yet she refuses to provide this simple documentation. If you think she's refusing to invalidate these rumours for 'funsies'...well, it's no wonder her followers have such a reputation for having the "flamingo mentality"."""

She isn't going to give a birth certificate to satisfy a few fringe bloggers. She'll wait until she can make an impact. It would be particulary devastating if Maddow ran with the Trig Truther conspiracy until to be completely debunked the next day by Palin herself.

However, for all intents and purposes, it is debunked. What we have here are some people afflicted with a severe case of PDS. The cure of course, is beyond me.; 25 October 2009 at 23:16
Patrick said...: @Amy1

My general point was that people don't WANT to believe it, even if we would present them another 100 pictures of non-pregnant Sarah in her last trimester of pregnancy. This is the reality. Therefore, we need more than photographs. We have much more already, but try to tell this to somebody who simply REFUSES to believe that Sarah has faked her pregnancy.

Unfortunately, we will need the full truth, the full story. That's why we have started to get in close contact with Alaskans who have excellent connections in the "higher echelons of society", and we have seen some excellent results already!; 25 October 2009 at 23:18
Anonymous said...: """ hannah said...
Jesse, in regard to your question -- you'll need to contact pat dougherty, ADN editor...and ask him why he elected not to print the interview to which I refer -- where CBJ said she "could not confirm" that she delivered Trig.

And possibly do a little research -- find ten or twelve random obgyn/ob doctors in your phone book or your beloved google. Call and tell them that an acquaintance is age 43, pregnant with her fifth child, and has experienced premature rupture of membranes. Be sure to mention that said woman has entered the first stage of labour more than a month early, and that the infant has been confirmably diagnosed with Trisomy 21 and a heart defect that may require surgery.

Tell them that your friend has an event to attend and is determined to do so. Now inform them that her travel schedule will put her in the air for approximately ten hours and on the ground/airport/in a vehicle for another ten to twelve hours. Oh, and be sure to let them know that not only does she NOT have a neonatal specialist, but the attending physician is not even an obgyn.

Tie the whole thing up by letting them know that your friend bypassed multiple NICU equipped hospitals in order to deliver at a facility that is SO I'll equipped for high risk deliveries, they do not even allow twins to be scheduled for delivery there.

Ask these doctors' offices how you should advise your friend.

I personally guarantee that not one physican will say "sure, that's fine...she'll be ok".

Furthermore -- I predict that at least half the physicians will display remarkable shock and concern at the situation described above. I would not be at all surprised if one or more of these physicians expressed a concern so great, they would call this person's fitness as a mother into question.

You know, this isn't a bad idea for all of us -- to contact random obgyn/ob offices...and go through the process outlined above. I know it does not prove anything on its own -- but it serves to highlight the sheer outrageousness of SP's wild ride claims, especially as they relate to CBJ and her supposed middle of the night 'advising' to SP.

We could put the contact info for the doctors' offices for verification purposes. Many doctors have web sites that show email addresses -- we could have a blogpost just for this- to display the correspondences and phone call summaries that comprise the doctors/doctors' offices responses."""

Don't shift the burden of proof. That's a typical logical fallacy.

Once again, you have proven you make statements you cannot back up. You cannot even give me a single link to a website than can provide hard evidence that shows that Palin's doctor said that.; 25 October 2009 at 23:19
Barb Dwyer said...: There must be a gnat buzzing around here; 25 October 2009 at 23:27
Patrick said...: Jesse Cornish:

What you are doing here, is SPAMMING.

You have just left 4 long comments in a row in which you have simpy copied what others have written and then added at the end that you don't agree with what the others have written.

Guess what, Jesse Cornish: We understand that you don't agree with us. We also understand that nobody wants to play with you on your own blog. Too bad for you.

You have crossed a line and you now abuse the freedom which is given to everyone here. In future, this behaviour will not be accepted any more. You can go and play somewhere else.; 25 October 2009 at 23:35
Patrick said...: Oh, make this five comments in a row, Jesse. Well done, my friend.; 25 October 2009 at 23:36
ginny said...: Yeah, Barb, I think I heard that gnat too. I think Patrick just smashed it, though. :-); 25 October 2009 at 23:45
Anonymous said...: Patrick@23:34. Thank you. This reader is grateful to you for giving Cornish the boot. What a bore he is (or I hope I can say "was").; 25 October 2009 at 23:56
Anonymous said...: """@Amy1

My general point was that people don't WANT to believe it, even if we would present them another 100 pictures of non-pregnant Sarah in her last trimester of pregnancy. This is the reality. Therefore, we need more than photographs. We have much more already, but try to tell this to somebody who simply REFUSES to believe that Sarah has faked her pregnancy.

Unfortunately, we will need the full truth, the full story. That's why we have started to get in close contact with Alaskans who have excellent connections in the "higher echelons of society", and we have seen some excellent results already!"""

Are you a doctor, Patrick? Are you fully qualified to determine the Sarah Palin of a woman based on a few photographs? The answer to both is no. The fact is, you haven't been able to produce a single doctor that will go on record and say Sarah Palin wasn't pregnant. Not a single one. That's telling.

I must ask this though. How long will you string people along? You know you have nothing. You know "babygate" will go nowhere. What are you trying to accomplish with your lies?

"""Jesse Cornish:

What you are doing here, is SPAMMING.

You have just left 4 long comments in a row in which you have simpy copied what others have written and then added at the end that you don't agree with what the others have written.

Guess what, Jesse Cornish: We understand that you don't agree with us. We also understand that nobody wants to play with you on your own blog. Too bad for you.

You have crossed a line and you now abuse the freedom which is given to everyone here. In future, this behaviour will not be accepted any more. You can go and play somewhere else."""

Or else you'll do what?

I have asked simple, consise questions.

Where the medical doctors that will go on the record and say that Sarah Palin could not be pregnant based on the photographs?

Where are the experts that can prove that Sarah Palin's letter from her doctor is a fake?

Where is the conclusive evidence that can be brought to the media and ultimately prove your claims?

Can you answer those questions? Can you?

And by the way, don't blame me for 4096 character limit. Anyways, you should be happy that there are more comments on the blog. What blogger wouldn't want a few more?

So go ahead, censor me. You'll look hypocritical, just like the rest of your allies. I can back up everything I say with the appropiate evidence. I can't say the same for you.; 25 October 2009 at 23:58
Anonymous said...: trolls of 0 tooth
to0t; 26 October 2009 at 00:01
Patrick said...: Jesse Cornish:

We are liberal, but not stupid. There is no discussion forum in the world where your behaviour would be tolerated. That's why the word "troll" was invented. To describe people like you.

Look, there is a nice Wikipedia definition:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."; 26 October 2009 at 00:04
sjk from the belly of the plane said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 26 October 2009 at 00:14
sjk from the belly of the plane said...: if anyone can reasonably explain the baby pillow, I am all ears. Other than that she defies all known reasonable logic in terms of looks for a woman in her condition. period.; 26 October 2009 at 00:18
Anonymous said...: """Jesse Cornish:

We are liberal, but not stupid. There is no discussion forum in the world where your behaviour would be tolerated. That's why the word "troll" was invented. To describe people like you.

Look, there is a nice Wikipedia definition:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.""""

How are my post controversial? I have simply requested you answer a few of my questions, which repeatedly go unanswered.

How is asking for evidence inflammatory? Isn't the truth important to you?

Irrelevant or off-topic? The main topic of about every thread is the Trig Truther conspiracy theory.
I reply accordingly.

Now, wouldn't you just relish proving me the fool and delivering the evidence that could finally prove your theory fact once and for all? Why don't you do that?

For the same reason you don't go a reputable media outlet with your so-called evidence. It is worthless and meaningless, and wouldn't get past the scrutiny of the greenest journalist around.

Now don't go acting all high and mighty and offended. You have attacked Sarah Palin in one of the worst manners possible with no evidence to support your claims, and you want to get mad at me because of a few lengthy posts?

I have been polite for the most part around here. That's just who I am. Others would have been less so. Remember that.; 26 October 2009 at 00:22
emrysa said...: jesse cornish obviously has some issues.

'I believe that women can fly on airplanes after their water breaks and give birth 29.5 hours later - on their 5th pregnancy.'

bwaahahaa, hey jesse I got a bridge to sell you!; 26 October 2009 at 00:25
Anonymous said...: My favorite scene from SPAMALOT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4; 26 October 2009 at 00:29
Anonymous said...: jesse cornish--one question--you believe that sarah palin was and is qualified to play a major role on the national stage of u.s. politics, creating policy and the future for your and my children and grandchildren? if so, do you believe that her explanations for the birth of trig palin are beyond scrutiny? none of us were in the room when trig was birthed--that is beyond dispute. but you have no concerns regarding this story that beggars credulity? no, no doctor has, will comment, proving what? that perhaps bristol palin, patient, deserves confidentiality?; 26 October 2009 at 00:42
Anonymous said...: sjk from the belly of the plan,
Pillow stuffing, like swollen ankles, is a natural condition for all pregnant women. It is up to you to prove your assumption that this does not happen. One of the side effects is memory loss, no woman remembers their own pillow stuffings. That is why only an ob/gyn can solve this.; 26 October 2009 at 00:47
Barb Dwyer said...: Palin has been caught in lie, after lie, after lie, after lie, after lie, after lie, after lie, after lie. I can't think of one single thing the woman has EVER said that was true and I've known the fraud since '92. Back then (before she figured out that becoming a liar for Jesus would give her a group if stupid people she could use at will) at least she was somewhat real. A sloppy drunk perhaps but at least she had some charm.

Why in the HELL should we take her word for anything. A little investigation into anything that spews from her mouth shows it's a bald faced lie; 26 October 2009 at 01:02
sjk from the belly of the plane said...: jesse "conservative long winded buyer of the bridge to nowhere award",

She is pictured with a PILLOW under her blouse, over her belly.
It is what it is. it aint a baby human being..

PLEASE show us some comparable pictorial evidence of a similar 7 month pregnancy.

Spongebob squarepants' mom does not count...; 26 October 2009 at 01:20
hannah said...: Jesse is hilarious saying over and over that he can "back up" his claim that SP gave birth to Trig on 4-18-08 with "evidence"...

His "evidence" consists of a doctor's 'letter' which the doctor herself will not even admit to writing...and Palin's refusal to release Trig's birth certificate even though it would end this charade. One photograph where she 'looks pregnant'...which surfaced only after she was chosen as VP pick and the romours went wild. A photo that cannot be attributed to anyone- and was carefully edited to show a lower resolution than the original...and bore numerous hallmarks of being 'tinkered with' -- why if the photos were taken moments apart was a necklace missing from one? Why did the photos surface only hours after the Trig rumors went viral-- but never prior?

He keeps saying the 'burden of proof' is on US.

We have ironclad authenticated dates on photos that show a biological impossibility -- not a pregnant woman that doesn't show; THAT happens often. No...what we have ACTUAL evidence of is that eighteen days before allegedly being photographed with a belly so large she couldn't reach all the way around it...she had a completely flat stomach.

What Jesse claims is that the burden of proof is on us.

What I claim...is that HE cannot produce the 'bot equivalent of what we have: a conclusively dated photograph which shows Sarah Palin to appear pregnant during Trig's alleged gestation. We have continued silence of CBJ despite direct inquiries and her reputation as a physician on the line. In this case, silence DOES speak louder than words. I don't see Jesse pointing out the many instances where CBJ has confirmed that she 1) delivered Trig or was even present there... or 2) that she wrote or even signed the letter.

If CBJ did write the letter and DID deliver Trig...why not offer a terse "yes, I delivered gov palin's fifth child on April the 18th of last year. As it is a medical issue, any further inquiries can be directed to palin herself."

why endure the continued hits to her reputation and inability to do her job based upon the speculation that she may actually have advised a seven and three quarter months pregnant woman with broken water, who is of advanced maternal age with a trisomy infant who also has a heart defect ... to take not one but TWO flights?

It would be so much simpler for her and better for her career if she COULD offer a plausible excuse for the permission to fly being attributed to her.

Why say nothing? Why? I know why *I* believe she isn't speaking up- she was strong-armed by Palin to 'help' with her 'issue'...and I'm sure Palin ever so pointedly reminded her of that generous, beneficial appointment as the family physician of the year which Palin bestowed on her...

What's YOUR reasoning for why CBJ is keeping silent, Jesse? Why would a woman who professed to love the 'diversity' of her hospital job give it up virtually the moment that the Trig rumours went viral?

Jesse, you can pull a Palin all you want -- say something so many times that you start to believe it yourself...but the fact of the matter is...here in this community, the burden of proof is on YOU. We HAVE proof of OUR theory. Where's yours? Oh, riiiight. A doctor's letter that the doctor herself won't admit writing...and one photo of murky origin and indeterminate date which only appeared after the rumours went viral.

Oh...and Jesse? Why was the governor's website scrubbed of photos that showed Palin during what would have been the third trimester of pregnancy? She with her 'penchant for gorgeous scarves' obviously showed that she had no issue being photographed while 'pregnant'...
So what is the reason? No other photos have ever been scrubbed from the state website except those. The few that have surfaced? Show a remarkably flat-bellied woman, a woman who could not, as a biological possibility, become as depicted in those 'gusty' photos from the second week of April 2008.

Which I know must come as a TOTAL shock to you.; 26 October 2009 at 03:14
Anonymous said...: K, I'm just gonna say it. I never thought Sarah would learn how to read and write, but clearly she has graced is with her presence, plus also, too, shown us her amazing cut and paste talents! Just think, if she weren't too old, she could finally have a real talent for the beauty contests!

Too late, though. Bummer.; 26 October 2009 at 04:27
Barb Dwyer said...: Let's not forget this quote from the editor of ADN after TRYING to prove she actually DID give birth.

"Lisa Demer started reporting. She received very little cooperation in her efforts from the parties who, in my judgment, stood to benefit most from the story, namely you and your family."

Yup.. The reporter trying to absolve Palin of this charade was STONEWALLED.; 26 October 2009 at 04:38

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